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A lot of successful engineers did not do well in the early grades or even high school.
Partly because in most schools, obedience and following orders is what gets you the A's. You have to be deligent about doing boring work, the same thing over and over - but that's exactly what those inclined to be engineers hate the most. The have to be creative, they have to think, and they have to have original thoughts.
One thing you have to do with bright kids who are not getting good grades is to make sure they know they can still make it in college. Often when they start getting into the more challenging classes and classes they get to choose, they'll take off. It's just the getting them there that's hard.
It would be interesting to see where all the straight A students from 6th grade really are 20 years later. You can bet a whole lot of them fizzled. Or they went on to mediocre careers while others found themselves in the upper level college years. Someone who will be "turned on" by chemistry or physics just doesn't get what they most need in the earlier school years.
Schools need to get away from having kids sit at a desk all day bored out of their minds and have more hands-on learning, more physics labs, more chemistry labs where they can discover for themselves what happens and investigate why and learn that way.
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely! This is an excellent post, and I thought it should be quoted so the OP can read it again.
I was bored out of my mind in school. Granted, I was a good little rule-follower, so I managed the play the game and stay on the honor roll. I did extremely well on all of the standardized tests, so I was deemed "smart" and encouraged to fall in line, which I did for the most part. When I got to high school, I realized that in classes like English and History, I could B.S. my way through without doing the bulk of the reading. Didn't work in math, though... in math, there is one right answer, and that is that, so I did have to do all of my math homework! The boy I had a major crush on was my lab partner in Chemistry and Physics, so that was my motivation right there... he was interested in getting A's, so I applied myself and made sure I got A's too. (I'm bringing this up so you can see that my motivation was something incredibly silly... but it worked!)
Can you lure him in my letting him know that you will let him do dual enrollment at the local community college if he qualifies? What is he interested in? Can he intern at a local business (evenings and weekends), and learn what it will take for him to succeed in that type of career? Whether it's plumbing or zoology or firefighting or stockbroking, there are some subjects that he will need to have under his belt before taking the next step toward his chosen career. Would he do better learning at home with an accredited program?
As a bored teen, I would not have been motivated by threats of boot camp and losing telephone privileges, but positive motivation worked. Your son might be the opposite, but even now, positive motivation works for me. Help him look forward to the next step instead of dreading his "punishment."
I think some folks misunderstood me. I would never force him to join the military. He would have a choice between Job Corps and military, with the (silent) expectation that he'd choose job corps. The military isn't something he's even remotely interested in.
We've done me staying on him 24/7 (it gets SO SO old), we've done daily planners, we've done the whole "what do you have today" thing. We've done me looking every single day to see what he has. We've done the "show me that you have your homework in your book bag" route. We've done the take tv, computer, ipod and phone away. We've even done me throwing up my hands and telling him I can't deal w/ this anymore and it was up to him.
He's been on restriction since NOVEMBER. NOVEMBER. That's 10 months now. I give him weekends off b/c really I don't know anyone who wouldn't simply be used to not being able to do stuff.
I know it seems like he's bad, but this is the only thing that we have problems from w/ him. He's the most amazing big brother, son, etc except for this.
He is dyslexic, but he had 3 years of INTENSIVE tutoring at school and now reads as fast or faster than most kids w/o the problem.
Ceece, there is no school like that here my county. I've heard of them, but no go.
Ok - he isn't motivated. 2 things - whatever his consequences have been so far, they aren't enough to get him to change. That means either the consequences haven't been consistent enough, haven't been strong enough (I know, I know, November - but he has adapted to this and isn't motivated enough to change) or there is something else going on.
Now I don't think, from your info, that there is serious depression, learning problems, or something else serious psychologically - but a counselor might be able to have a conversation or 2 with him without it devolving into a screaming match. And maybe find something that will motivate him to try again. Because obviously he isn't.
Going into this year, I think it will really help you to have a plan - to start from scratch, as it were. Continuing the restriction by itself will not work - that should be obvious. Giving him everything back will seem like giving in, but by itself continuing is doing nothing. He is close to getting a learning permit, right? Is this something he looks forward to? Would he work for that? I would suggest that you seek a short term counselor to negotiate this, if it seems to be something he really wants. A behavioral counselor should be able to develop a contract b/w you and him that spells out what each of you is to do in order for him to get/earn whatever. This will allow you to stick to your guns, and will put in writing his responsibilities and your expectations. It is worth a try, if you are at the point where you are ready to threaten job corp/GED.
A behavioral counselor should be able to develop a contract b/w you and him that spells out what each of you is to do in order for him to get/earn whatever. This will allow you to stick to your guns, and will put in writing his responsibilities and your expectations. It is worth a try, if you are at the point where you are ready to threaten job corp/GED.
You mentioned that he's gotten good grades in the past and he completes the work, so it appears to me that he's capable of doing the work and he doesn't mind doing the work, but rather he's deliberately sabotaging himself. Why, might you ask?
Well I need to ask, is it possible he's being picked on at school? The reason I ask is because there is, unfortunately, a pervasive attitude amongst black youths that getting good grades, doing well in school, going to college, getting a good career are all 'selling out' or 'acting white'. They're called names like 'oreo' or 'Uncle Tom'. It's unfortunate, but often times black teenagers who are good students and do well in school are subject to ridicule from their peers, and sometimes even physical violence. Frankly, your son might be afraid that if he does too well in school, he'll get beat up by other black students. I would start there, and talk to him about this, let him know there's nothing for him to be ashamed in succeeding at school, and he doesn't have to embarrassed if he is in fact a target of bullying, and then take it from there.
88txaggie, do most school districts have behavioral counselors? B/c the ones at his school are just there for the $. They really don't care.
K-Dawg, I thought of that. The only reason I don't think that's it is b/c most of his friends are middle - upper middle class and are expected by their parents to get good grades for college. They are passing and doing fine. I will tell you that it's been hard to see dreams of Morehouse go up in smoke.
Have you talked to him about that dream? Maybe it's not too late...can you do something to help him refocus in a positive way? Perhaps visit the college or speak to someone there? What about a mentor? A local alumni group might be able to help with that.
My friend and I had a HEATED argument b/c I told her that if he fails again next year, I'm making him drop out of school and either attend Job Corps to get his GED and job training or get his GED, work 6 months and then join the military when he turns 17. She says I don't have the right to "decide his life for him". I say he can't stay in my house without either passing through to the next grade or working, and that by deciding not to do his school work, he is making his own decision.
Your thoughts?
I'm glad you have a good friend who is willing to stand up to you when she thinks you are wrong. I totally agree with your friend. Dropping him out of school is a BAD IDEA.
I've got news for you: Your son can't go into the military with a GED. The military doesn't accept people with GED unless they also have taken a certain number of college courses, the number of courses depends on the branch, but all branches require some college courses before accepting an applicant with a GED.
You really need to think of the concequences of your imposing such a harsh punishment on your child. It's one thing to punish a child. It's another thing for a punishment to be so life altering.
I would view you as a complete failure if you forced your son out of school as a punishment. I think most of society would too----your friends, your family, the parents of your son's friends----most everyone would be shocked at your doing such a terrible thing to your son.
YOU have to find a way to actually PARENT your child. Taking him out of school before 11th grade is NOT parenting. You say he's a decent kid. I guarantee you that he won't remain a decent kid if you take him out of school.
I think some folks misunderstood me. I would never force him to join the military. He would have a choice between Job Corps and military, with the (silent) expectation that he'd choose job corps. The military isn't something he's even remotely interested in.
You can't make him go into the Job Corps though. You really need to think this through. This isn't a good plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleJ
I know it seems like he's bad, but this is the only thing that we have problems from w/ him. He's the most amazing big brother, son, etc except for this.
I don't think he's a bad kid. I think it's a shame you are willing to overlook all of the good in him and permanently change his future so over this one problem you have with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleJ
He is dyslexic, but he had 3 years of INTENSIVE tutoring at school and now reads as fast or faster than most kids w/o the problem.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Learning disabilities don't just impact reading, math, etc. Organization problems go hand in hand with learning disabilities! OMG! I would be at that school district soooooooooooooooooo fast demanding that he receive special services. He most certainly would qualify for services since he failed for goodness sake! Would you punish someone who is incapable of doing something? Your son has a learning disability! This can be fixed! He needs services to teach him how to overcome his inability to organize!
88txaggie, do most school districts have behavioral counselors? B/c the ones at his school are just there for the $. They really don't care.
Well, the answer is that schools do have both counselors and school psychologists. Counselors are for all kids, but in HS usually that is for career counseling. Psychologists usually test/work with special ed kids. I really meant a private therapist/counselor. It wouldn't take too many sessions, I don't think, to figure out what would motivate him to change his behavior....or what is underlying the behavior.
Quote:
K-Dawg, I thought of that. The only reason I don't think that's it is b/c most of his friends are middle - upper middle class and are expected by their parents to get good grades for college. They are passing and doing fine. I will tell you that it's been hard to see dreams of Morehouse go up in smoke.
My son is an awesome kid. He's incredibly polite, still gives me kisses in front of his friends, and is popular. He's 15, will be 16 in December.
Problem? Failing grades. Not because he doesn't understand the work, but b/c he just doesn't bother turning in his work that he already did, nor does he really study most of the time. So he passed History, Science and PE for his 9th grade year. Failed German, English, Math, Art, Keyboarding. I'm so mad. Art is something you have to work harder at failing than you do to freaking pass. English is easy for him b/c he does exceptional on his state tests, as is Math. He just doesn't bother doing the work.
And yes, we talked to teachers on a CONSTANT basis, talked to his counselors, put him on restriction, etc. Since he failed 9th grade, this summer he's allowed out on weekends, but not during the week. During the week he also has to read a book (that I've already read so I can tell if he's actually read it or not) and write a book report that I then grade and return for corrections.
My friend and I had a HEATED argument b/c I told her that if he fails again next year, I'm making him drop out of school and either attend Job Corps to get his GED and job training or get his GED, work 6 months and then join the military when he turns 17. She says I don't have the right to "decide his life for him". I say he can't stay in my house without either passing through to the next grade or working, and that by deciding not to do his school work, he is making his own decision.
Your thoughts?
1) Don't hound him to do his work. He needs to learn about the reward or repercussions for taking care of his business.
2) Consider giving him a fresh start and explain that at the FIRST missed assignment in any class next year he loses XYZ like cell phone or all electronics etc. and that any grade below a B for a quarter will get him grounded until the next report card etc.
3) You can't fix this, it's going to be up to your son. However, it seems that he has a complete disconnect as to how the world works in terms of what he does and what he gets. In short, he sounds spoiled and I would have dropped the hammer on him wayyyy back at that 1st report card.
P.S. Grounding won't work on some kids, especially during the summer during the week if he just plays 12 hours of xbox etc. every day. Put him out in the yard pulling weeds 8 hours a day 5-days a week or digging holes or landscaping, farm work....
Get him some military school brochures too.
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