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You missed the point completely. Relatively speaking, very few kids are behaving this way. Of those kids who do, are the parent's responsible for their behavior? Perhaps. But I don't know the kids, the ages or anything so I'm hesitant to judge any specific case. Personally, I'd think by the time kids are a certain age, they are old enough to know right from wrong despite what their parents may or may not have done. But I digress. My point was, you seem to be judging teens in general for the behaviors of a few. That's wrong. I would not want to be judged as a greedy, thieving adult because a few adults behave that way.
That's kind of like saying all people who choose not to have children are selfish child-haters. I personally don't believe that but I know a few people like that so I guess I could describe all (or most) "child-free" people that way and then further wonder what mistakes their parents made with them to make them so selfish and hateful. But that would be wrong.
You took the effort to single out and quote a snippet of my post to respond do:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
The ONLY people who are committing these crimes, causing this kind of disturbance, behaving so thoroughly horribly and monstrous - are the kids. Not all the kids, but exclusively the kids.
And in response, you decided this means I think all kids are bad - which part of this:
Quote:
Not all the kids....
in the quote you isolated from the rest of my post, did you not understand?
And the rest of my post, which you apparently didn't bother to read:
Quote:
Oh the point - the point is, it's the parents who are buying these kids their ATVs. It's the parents who have chosen not to discipline their kids when the gas station owner tells them to keep a closer eye on what their kids are doing. It's the parents who have raised their children to believe that it's okay to use public property built for the use of children to play, as the location of their drug parties. And of course, as long as Junior is shooting off illegal bombs in the back yard and not in the neighbor's yard, he's safe and watched and loved...
Couple words bolded for emphasis. The (set of) children (among all) who behave like monsters, do so because their parents have raised them to be monsters. It is the parents providing the means for which the children can behave as they do.
Where in that are you seeing that I don't like kids? Where in that are you seeing that my problem is specifically with the children? I thought I was very clear. The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the parents who have chosen not to teach their children to behave.
Look...I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. Nowhere did I state that you don't like kids. In fact, I said that it would be wrong to say that all child-free people hate kids. I just am getting a wee bit tired of all these "kids today" are all bad and parents today are all complete morons type posts. Just like any other group, there are good kids and bad kids, good parents and bad parents. It's nothing new - there always have been. Oddly enough, some good kids come from bad parents and vice versa. Yes, in general, good kids are most likely to belong to good parents but it's truly not 100%. I'm especially tired of people who have no kids or young kids making sweeping generalizations about "teens these days". A handful of people read too many women's magazines or watch too much Oprah or whomever it is now, think that middle schools and high schools are full of nothing but rude, undisciplined, hooligans who do nothing but party, have wanton sex with anyone and everyone and vandalize other people's property, and they get people all riled up. I do understand how easy it is to fall into judgement when you see bad behavior. When I had no kids or younger kids I felt the same way. It's pretty easy to have all the answers when you aren't the one dealing with the questions. To be honest, I do find myself judgemental sometimes still (I'm working on that). But I am finding as my kids are older and I am exposed to a larger variety of teens and see the bigger picture of their lives, things aren't always as black and white as someone looking at a situation from a distance might think. I'm a big believer in discipline, don't get me wrong. My kids are polite and (knock wood) have never been in any trouble. But I've seen enough and am honest enough to admit that while some of that is certainly the result of my parenting, there is also a fair amount of luck thrown in. Also - there's a heck of a lot of really, really great kids "out there" - you just don't hear about them as often.
//end rant//
Last edited by maciesmom; 08-17-2010 at 10:05 AM..
Reason: clarity
But no one is saying that maciemom. You're getting your knickers in a twist over something no one is saying. No one is saying all kids are bad. No one is saying all parents suck. Your point is moot, because it's based on a complaint that doesn't exist.
When I was in school throughout the early 70's to early 80's discipline was a fact of life. When at home, if I did something wrong, my father would punish me; usually with a belt. It worked. When attending school, especially high school, the coaches did most of the disciplining. Big intimidating paddles were not uncommon and was pretty much the norm. Any kind of foul language out on the football field got your mouth washed out with a bar of soap. Not fun, but effective.
Should we bring this type of discipline back?
Yes. Unacceptable behavior must have real consequences attached. The velvet glove legislatively forced upon parents has proven a failure. While child abuse should not be tolerated the pendulum swung way too far to the side of coddling.
I still cannot use Dial gold bar as that was the flavor my mother used to correct verbal "sass".
How about we don't, and put the blame where it belongs; the parents.
I have to disagree with this.
I know quite a few good families where the parents were doing everything they could for their kids and the kids went off on the wrong path despite the parents best efforts. Sometimes kids make THEIR OWN decision to do things they should not be doing, despite being raised by parents who did everything they could to dissuade such behavior.
I know quite a few good families where the parents were doing everything they could for their kids and the kids went off on the wrong path despite the parents best efforts. Sometimes kids make THEIR OWN decision to do things they should not be doing, despite being raised by parents who did everything they could to dissuade such behavior.
I have found this to be true as well. Sometimes no matter what you do you just get a bad seed.
My major gripe is the outright rudness and disrespect I see. I have come a hair from slapping the snot out of my brothers teen for sassing and being disrespectful. I know our dad would not have tolerated being called a fat arse from his own children. Even overhearing some kids mouthing to their parents in stores and parking lots, Ive had to bite my tongue. This is just a total lack of teaching respect and discipline. And this crosses over to the way they treat everyone and conduct themselves in public.
The majority of kids I see are great kids. The most well behave are the Mennonite children.
Look...I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. Nowhere did I state that you don't like kids. In fact, I said that it would be wrong to say that all child-free people hate kids. I just am getting a wee bit tired of all these "kids today" are all bad and parents today are all complete morons type posts. Just like any other group, there are good kids and bad kids, good parents and bad parents. It's nothing new - there always have been. Oddly enough, some good kids come from bad parents and vice versa. Yes, in general, good kids are most likely to belong to good parents but it's truly not 100%. I'm especially tired of people who have no kids or young kids making sweeping generalizations about "teens these days". A handful of people read too many women's magazines or watch too much Oprah or whomever it is now, think that middle schools and high schools are full of nothing but rude, undisciplined, hooligans who do nothing but party, have wanton sex with anyone and everyone and vandalize other people's property, and they get people all riled up. I do understand how easy it is to fall into judgement when you see bad behavior. When I had no kids or younger kids I felt the same way. It's pretty easy to have all the answers when you aren't the one dealing with the questions. To be honest, I do find myself judgemental sometimes still (I'm working on that). But I am finding as my kids are older and I am exposed to a larger variety of teens and see the bigger picture of their lives, things aren't always as black and white as someone looking at a situation from a distance might think. I'm a big believer in discipline, don't get me wrong. My kids are polite and (knock wood) have never been in any trouble. But I've seen enough and am honest enough to admit that while some of that is certainly the result of my parenting, there is also a fair amount of luck thrown in. Also - there's a heck of a lot of really, really great kids "out there" - you just don't hear about them as often.
//end rant//
I disagree.
The teachers I respected and listened to the most were the relaxed ones.
I had a teacher for english, public speaking and homeroom. I LOVED this teacher. He was soo cool. He didn't care of you texted in homeroom ever. He didn't mind if you texted in class. He wasn't so anal about you answering a text in class, as long as your phone couldn't be heard. If I got a text I could check it and answer back, in return I didn't text much in his class because I knew he was cool about it and he wasn't going to flip out about the few times I did.
He didn't care of we swore. We were juniors/seniors, he would swear in class and we would swear in class, not excessively of course. Like if we discussed something about brit lit and were talking about something weird in the 1800's, I could drop a "wow thats ****ty" and it would be cool. It also taught us that some people mind swearing and some don't and we learned where we could and couldn't do it.
If I was having a bad day and wanted to leave for lunch, he would cover for me.
I really respected him, I listened to him, I took his advice, I went to him for more than school work. I went to him like I would a parent. I valued his opinion and listened to when he told me to do something.
If I wanted to ditch and was having a bad day, he wouldn't go all teacher on me, he'd sit me down find out what was wrong and pep talk back into a better mood to where I felt better.
This is my fear. I fear that my tax dollars are paying for idiots like this who are more interested in being their students' friends than their teachers. Any teacher who lets his students curse or text in class is not doing his job and should lose it to someone more qualified.
This is my fear. I fear that my tax dollars are paying for idiots like this who are more interested in being their students' friends than their teachers. Any teacher who lets his students curse or text in class is not doing his job and should lose it to someone more qualified.
I learned more from him than I did any teacher I had ever had.
He was a teacher and a friend.
He had his rules and he enforced them but at the same time he was an understanding person, he was THERE for his students. When I was going through that rough patch with my mom, he was there, he would sit and talk with me. Most the time she and I would get into fights in the morning and she and I would continue that fight via text message at school. There was suppose to be no texting in homeroom but iPods were allowed but he KNEW what was going on and let me. He let all of us because he knew we were going to sneak to do it anyways and he was just one of those teachers who didn't mind.
He wasn't an idiot, he was one of the most respected and well liked teachers at my high school.
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