I can't wait for this school year to end! (ADHD, out of control, support)
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Right now, I am livid! Last month my son's 4th grade teacher called in the school psych to observe my son. This was done without my knowledge. I was called in a couple of weeks ago and the psych listed numerous behaviors that all point to ADHD. At that meeting the psych did most of the talking while the teacher and myself listened. She suggested I take my son to see a medical doctor.
I digested all this for about a week then set up a conference with the teacher for yesterday to ascertain the ADHD behaviors the TEACHER sees on a daily basis. There was a LOT of contradiction in what she told me. While I do believe she has been having some difficulties with my son this year, I think she is embellishing the behaviors, and in fact contributing to them.
1. She told me he can't stay in his seat and is constantly moving and that she sees this behavior 80% of class time!!
80%??? I say? That is HUGE! Well, then, what percentage of his classwork is not being completed due to this behavior, I ask?
Oh, he completes ALL his work, and usually on time, she tells me. He's VERY smart!
So, can anyone tell me how he accomplishes this amazing feat? He can't sit still or stay in his seat for 80% OF THE DAY, but he ALWAYS gets ALL his work done!? Or maybe they are only BUSY for the other 20% of the time?
2. How is his attention, I ask? What % of the time is he not attending? Oh, about 30% she says.
Well, what % of his work is not being completed due to inattentiveness, I ask?
Oh, he gets all his work done, she says. He is always attentive during instruction time, she tells me. If he is interested in what we are doing, he pays attention and is very engaged, but if he is not interested in what we are doing, he becomes inattentive.
REALLY? Imagine that!?
3. So, I ask, when he DOES engage in the above behaviors, what strategies have you used with him, I ask?
Well, since he usually is not disruptive to either me or the other kids in the class, and since he usually gets his work done, I ignore it, says she.
So, can someone please tell me how a kid that can barely remain seated or quiet for 80% of the day is not disruptive? WHICH IS IT? He is either bouncing around in his seat 80% which I would imagine to be VERY disruptive, or he's NOT!?
4. He's always the last kid to get unpacked in the morning, the last kid to line up and the last kid to pack up at the end of the day.
Okaaaaaay, well someone has to be last!
5. The kids are supposed to clear off their desks at the end of the day before going to recess. (Yes, strangely, recess is the 10 to 15 minutes prior to going home). He rarely cleans off his desk, but he's not the only kid who leaves their desk like that, she tells me. Mind you, the psych made a HUGE ISSUE over this!
So, I ask, how is this being addressed? Well, I don't like to take recess away so I usually just let it go.
Soooo, despite the fact that you have 'let this go' since September and it is now April, there is no consequence whatsoever for NOT clearing off the desk, AND my son is not the only one leaving his desk cluttered, STILL this is a symptom of ADHD?
My biggest PEEVE is she went behind my back and called in the psych who did 3 observations all without my knowledge. I have spoken to her on SEVERAL OCCASIONS within this timeframe having to do with him being bullied at lunch time which she ignored for MONTHS until I really pushed. He was very unhappy about going to school during this time.
I asked her on SEVERAL occasions if she noticed any changes or problems with his behavior and her answer was no! We had a PT conference in February and while she mentioned the being 'last' thing, nothing else came up!
Really, WTF??? I am in touch with her ALL THE TIME, so how did she fail to mention all these out of control ADHD behaviors?
How does she explain the STRAIGHT A's!!!?????
WTH is her problem? If she doesn't have any classroom management techniques or consequences or any type of system to handle behavior whatsoever, how is that my problem?
I've had issues before with this woman and I even suggested to the principal that she needs some training in classroom management, because apparently she just goes in there every day and wings it, and it is NOT working!
Instead of ranting and raving, why don't you consider the possibilities and visit a private doctor? What harm other than a co-pay will it do? What happens if there are things that could benefit your kid?
No, you have every right to rant and rave. It is OK! I agree, it all sounds alittle suspect. It sounds like normal behavior to me a well. I think everyone just feels the need to cover their as**s these days. Please try to be rational now though, after thinking it through and ranting. Have there ever been any thoughts on your part, or other teachers about this topic? If not, I'd let it go. If there is any tiny doubt, I'd check it out. But to what end? Would you choose to medicate if you indeed found out he had a problem? I, personally feel that too many people are too quick on the medication trigger. Good luck to you. I hate to be harsh, but some teachers are ridiculous. With three kids, you learn this quickly.
No, you have every right to rant and rave. It is OK! I agree, it all sounds alittle suspect. It sounds like normal behavior to me a well. I think everyone just feels the need to cover their as**s these days. Please try to be rational now though, after thinking it through and ranting. Have there ever been any thoughts on your part, or other teachers about this topic? If not, I'd let it go. If there is any tiny doubt, I'd check it out. But to what end? Would you choose to medicate if you indeed found out he had a problem? I, personally feel that too many people are too quick on the medication trigger. Good luck to you. I hate to be harsh, but some teachers are ridiculous. With three kids, you learn this quickly.
Thank you! I have no doubts whatsoever that my son is not ADHD. I have 3 kids as well and my oldest is 25. Of the 3, this child is the least hyper of them all! He has no trouble attending or focusing on things he enjoys and while he doesn't like doing HW and will avoid getting started, once he starts he sits and does all his HW from start to finish without becoming distracted, so I know the suggestion of ADHD is absolutely ridiculous.
I've had crazy problems with this teacher, the worst being her classroom management technique of making the kids give her food from their lunch box if they are caught not paying attention, and KEEPING it! I have, for the first time in my life, actually complained to the principal about a teacher, so there is bad blood between us.
The prevailing problem is the teacher has now gotten the principal and school psych involved and ON HER SIDE. They decided to implement a daily notebook to go back and forth from school to home alerting me of issues. I have no problem with this, but they have basically told me they have no consequences they can give at school, so it is all on me to take care of it at home. WHY, WHY, WHY isn't the school psych working with the teacher to implement effective classroom management techniques, not just for my son, but for the whole class?
Some of the stuff she writes in the book is ridiculous, i.e. he had a brief period of inattention, but then was able to attend the rest of the day. What am I supposed to do with that? Why even mention that he was inattentive if it was brief? Or, he lifted up his pants leg because he said his leg hurt and this distracted the other kids. Seriously?
But now I'm in the unenviable position of 'going along' with this bull*&** or risk being seen as uncooperative parent. And the psych was already talking about next year, so now my son is under the radar and every move will be suspect of something more 'dire' going on.
Instead of ranting and raving, why don't you consider the possibilities and visit a private doctor? What harm other than a co-pay will it do? What happens if there are things that could benefit your kid?
A question for parents who have been through this with their children: What does the doctor actually do?
I have not dealt with this with a child of my own, but in the case of one of my relatives, the parents had already decided there was a problem before they took their daughter to the doctor. The diagnosis was based on what the parents said, and medication was prescribed (in this case, not a good thing).
In other cases, I have been given forms to fill out as the teacher.
Does the doctor do anything other than listen to the parents and the teachers?
In OP's case, I wouldn't recommend a doctor because the behaviors the teacher thinks are problems are not causing any problem, either to OP's child or any other child. Then what is the problem? And if there is a problem, isn't it the teacher's job to correct the child? If the child has too much time, the teacher can direct him to appropriate activities. If he can't stick with any appropriate activity, then maybe there is a problem. Maybe.
You asked the right questions at the teacher conference. FYI, a school psychologist is not allowed to observe just your kid w/o your consent. The psych can observe the class to consult with the teacher re: classroom management (which it seems by your description might be warranted) but cannot single out a student for observation without prior parental consent.....this is ethically wrong.
The questions I would've asked of the teacher that weren't mentioned.....what is it about the behavior that caused you to ask the psych to observe? What behaviors are you wanting to change, since he 1) is not disruptive to himself or others 2) does all his work in a timely manner 3) does his work correctly (I presume). What does the teacher wish to accomplish in April by having the psych observe?
At this point I gather you are not interested in pursuing testing/diagnosis, and given the above teacher info I don't know that I would be either. However, just as an FYI, this is the procedure that should happen if you wish to pursue the matter:
If the teacher had such concerns re: off task behavior, she should have let you know and obtained consent for the psych to become involved. If the psych thought there was enough grounds to pursue testing, AND you agreed, then the following should happen:
If the school wishes to pursue testing, the evaluation should be done on the school's dime - this would entail more classroom observations (and observations in other settings, like cafeteria and playground, which might get you the help you sought regarding the bully), testing with your child, interview with your child, interview with you, interview with the teacher, and checklists for you and his teacher(s) to fill out (helpful to get 1 or 2 'specials' teachers to fill one out too - like music and art). Only after this testing was complete and the results discussed with you would you then seek a medical opinion. The MD should have the above info before prescribing anything, should medication even be needed (a LOT of MDs don't do this, which is why a psychologist should be involved).
If you don't trust the school psychologist, then you could seek an outside evaluation. But I would not go directly to an MD based on the above info - the MD will most likely not pursue a best practices evaluation, as described above. An independent psychologist can do the above testing, with the exception of the teacher interview and observations.
One more thing - as it is May, the school will be hard pressed to even get an evaluation completed by the end of the school year. One more reason why it doesn't make sense that this issue wasn't handled earlier and better. But, as one last FYI, teacher behavior referrals to psychs increase in the spring.
So sorry to hear you're going through this, wsop! I'm just going to address the small pieces (of the huge amount of stuff that needs to be addressed) that I'm familiar with.
I used to do psychoeducational evals as part of clinical psych practice. There are a number of ways to come up with a diagnosis, some more thorough than others. In the least comprehensive manner, parent and teacher report questionnaires and a clinical interview are administered. To diagnose AD/HD, the behaviors need to be present in two or more settings, so the teacher's report/observations alone would not cut it to diagnose. In more detailed assessments, there are tests of intelligence and achievement (in general) and tests of attention span to auditory and visual stimuli (more specific) that can be used to support or not support a diagnosis. These batteries can be super expensive though.
My two cents is that if you feel that the school staff have already decided that your son has AD/HD (under questionable circumstances at best!!), if you can bear the cost of an eval, it might help to shed more light on the picture. I believe parents tend to have a ton of information on what is and is not going on with their own children. "Best" case, the eval turns up with no AD/HD diagnosis and then you can use that documentation to fight the school. "Worst" case, it shows an AD/HD diagnosis and then you have specific information and interventions to work with so you don't feel like the school is keeping you occupied with nonsensical busy-work.
My other two cents is that, in general - not for your son specifically, behavioral treatments for attention/hyperactivity problems are just as if not more effective than medication in the long-term. The National Institute of Mental Health has links to research supporting this stance.
Good luck! I don't blame you for feeling frustrated!!
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