How to handle someone else's child making racial statements? (smart, children, 5 year old)

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by nana053

Did any of you see this program?

Kids on Race: Mikayla's story – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Interesting story.

And exactly why I would no longer give this child a ride. It is reinforcing the idea that implicit racism is acceptable to MY child.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by CMMom

Guys, I'm not trying to start an international incident, either on CD or in real life with this family. I, too, don't want to overinterpret, overanalyze, or overreact. I realize that racial issues are highly emotionally charged (especially here in the South), but I'm not ready to paint a Scarlet "R" on either this child or his family. Keep in mind that if the child had made a questionable but non-racially oriented remark, this conversation might be different. I think we should ask ourselves whether we would react in the same way if he had said, "I hope our teacher's not fat" or "I hope there's no stupid kids in our class." Those types of remarks are equally worrisome to me. But, I wouldn't necessarily automatically jump to the conclusion that his parents rant about overweight or lower intelligence people, I don't think. Let's just deal with the current situation in the right framework and not generalize too much.

Thanks for all the advice. My husband and I are still discussing our options.

If you just ignore this, by continuing to participate in the carpool and do not correct this child and inform his parents, you are showing your child by your actions, that this sort of thing is acceptable. No amount of talking to your child will negate that.

Actions speak louder than words after all.

[Katarina Witt]

I think, regarding the "Chinese" incident, that the kid simply doesn't know what he's talking about.

We had a pastor who had two kids she adopted from Korea. When they were little, she had a major cat-fit b/c some other kids said her kids had slanty eyes. She, however, found it entirely appropriate to comment on my daughter's red hair, even petting her like she was a puppy.

Kids notice differences. It doesn't always mean they're racist.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate

Just say "in my car we don't talk that way." He will catch on as will your son.

your car your rules, nothing more complicated than that.

Sounds quite reasonable to me. I definitely would not approach his parents with this information ~ not if you want the carpool to continue.

Simply enforce your rules and let that be that.

If it becomes clear that he's from a clearly racist family ~ then I would probably discourage the friendship and the carpool.

I think it's early to make that determination.

[CMMom]

Originally Posted by lkb0714

Things do not need to be malicious to be unacceptable.

And fyi, the very next day he refused to accept that the nanny was not chinese. I doubt hte kid is racist, most children do not even understand the concept, but what he has said is unacceptable to a bunch of people. Personally, I would be most concerned about teaching my child that we do not have to accept language like this. Far more than a ride.



The difference here is that the child in your story was just curious. The one in the OPs story was NEGATIVE with regards to another person's race. That is the key difference.

Children frequently asked my daughter when she was little "What are you? Why do you look like that?" And the questions are neither hurtful or negative. Saying "black people smell bad" is negative and incredible hurtful if said to a black child.

Again, I would dump this kid and his family, not over the single comment but over the fact that he apparently then brought up race again in the very next car ride.

A couple of corrections:

1. The remarks did not happen on two consecutive days. One was Monday, one was Wednesday (small difference, I realize, but just need to be accurate).

2. As I mentioned in my original post, I have had a discussion with my son regarding why the remark was both wrong and unacceptable and how we in our family do not speak in a disparaging way about any group of people. I take issue with your statement: "Tacitly accepting these types of things because you need the car pool buddy is a horrible message she is sending her child." I most assuredly am not accepting this (tacitly or otherwise), and I assure you that if I felt the child or family was overtly racist, I would not continue the carpool, period. Please don't insinuate otherwise. It's also easy to condemn me for needing this carpool, but please don't judge without understanding the reasons why I need the carpool. That feels quite judgmental.

3. I understand that you have the right to your opinion and I do respect it, but I have had enough exposure to this family to feel that this behavior is an anomaly and that they are not monsters. I am not prepared to "dump this kid and his family" or to label him as "a brat."

4. Since my last post, my husband actually ran into the child's father today at the pool with the kids and had the discussion with him. It went fine, and the Dad was very surprised to hear what had been said and expressed bafflement over where his son might have heard such things. My husband felt he was being sincere. Given that I have no other evidence to believe he was being less than honest, I'm going to give the whole family the benefit of a doubt. I am, however, going to keep my ears wide open and be prepared to immediately handle any additional incidents.

[FinsterRufus]

Originally Posted by lkb0714

This isn't a court of law, its a social situation. And a grades schooler that makes racist remarks is no more tolerable than one who is dropping the f-bomb. I, and the OP, have every right to exclude people like this from our and our children's lives if we choose to.

The kid made ONE remark. And to you he's already "people like this".

Where did I say anything about not having the right to exclude the kid if she/you want to? I never said anything of the sort. The OP asked for opinions and I gave my opinion. Nowhere did I say she doesn't have the right to exclude the kid if she wants to.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

What the child said was unacceptable, on both occassions. No one has to subject their child to that kind of thing just so your kid can say whatever they want.

What do you mean "so my kid can say whatever they want?" Where did I say I think my kid should say whatever she wants? I truly hope my kid never says anything like that. And if she does, we'll certainly set her straight. Given that most of her friends are of various races, I really doubt she will. However, if she said ONE stupid thing once that perhaps she heard somewhere, I sincerely hope that people would not jump to erroneous conclusions about her, nor assume that she got it from me.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

Then it is apples and oranges to the point of the thread.

Not to my post you misquoted, it wasn't. I was trying to point out that actions of ALL the people involved in this has consequences, sometimes dire.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

No I looking at it from the point of view of the person being insulted based on their race. A black child or really any child should not have to be subjected to those kinds of statements.

I agree. And I would take any opportunity to tell the child that.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

And fyi, as far as "intent" that is what people always claim when they tell a racist or sexist joke. That their "intent" was to be funny. I don't care what the intent was, I care what was actually said.

If we were talking about adults, I would agree with you. But if you want to judge and jury a kid, then go for it. I don't know that kids are sophisticated enough to have the level of intent that would equal real racism and hatred. I don't really think they understand any of it, to the extent we do. I don't think what he said was nice, or even socially acceptable, but I'm going to give a seven year old the benefit of the doubt, and next time he's in the car have a word with him about it.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

You are missing the point. All you care about is the feelings of the brat and his family who made the comment. The other child present and the nanny are the ones whose feelings should be considered first and foremost.

That's not all I care about. I just know there's enough people willing to condemn the kid already. The other child was the OP's son, we're discussing an incident in their car, not an incident where the child purposely went up and hurt another child with racist comments. I don't think the child in the car cared.

And before you jump on me, no I don't think either scenario is acceptable, but we're discussing a specific thing that the OP was witness to, we can't surmise beyond it.

I don't know if the nanny was insulted. But I'm not sure what's racist about asking "Is she Chinese?". Yes it was rude to keep insisting "she sounds Chinese" but lack of manners does not make a kid a racist.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

You are the one projecting here. The kid made a racist comment, then he made several racial insensitive comments to the OPs employee. If I were her, I would drop this kid like a hot potato.

So it's not okay for the kid to hurt people, but it's okay for you to "drop him like a hot potato." So only kids that say the right things at all times are worthy of consideration? And it's debatable whether he made "several racial insensitive comments".

Originally Posted by lkb0714

Tacitly accepting these types of things because you need the car pool buddy is a horrible message she is sending her child.

That's up to the OP. I don't get any sense that she's tacitly accepting anything. Just because you don't instantly excommunicate a seven year old doesn't mean tacit acceptance.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

You OTOH only care about the kid's family not being labeled something. I didn't call them racist but the fact of the kids comments is enough enough to dump him. If you don't want the same thing to happen to your kid, make sure they don't make racist comments.

Yeah, thanks for the lecture. I would be horrified if my kid did indeed make a racist comment. I sincerely can't think that she would. But kids say stupid things, and get stupid ideas, and may occasionally say something embarrassing or mortifying. I just see it from the other POV, which would be that if you came at me all guns blazing like that because my kid made a stupid mistake (because my child is not racist), I would be hurt and mortified. Because that would mean you thought my kid the lowest of the low. And that hurts people too.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

And judging by your response, you are incapable of understanding that I never called this boys parents racist.

No I'm not incapable of understanding that. But you quoted my post where that was the topic.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

Seems you are so busy projecting your own fears of your kid saying something racist you can not objectively recognize that parents have the right to dump kids who say stupid, hurtful stuff.

Again, of course you have the right to dump a kid.

It's not fear of my kid saying something racist that scares me, it's the thought of somebody taking something and running with it to the point where we get wrongly accused of being a racist family. Seeing as we aren't, and that it would completely ruin our lives here, and that I would be hurt beyond belief that anyone would think we would hurt them in that way, yes I am afraid of that. It doesn't take much for people to jump to the wrong conclusion.

Originally Posted by lkb0714

Your right to be accepted by the community does not take precedence of parents choosing to not have their kids around kids who say things that are unacceptable.

I'm trying to point out that these things can get out of hand. For that to happen to our family would be catastrophic. And it would not be based in merit. There are people out there who will judge others on little evidence. That's what scares me.

[DewDropInn]

Maybe he WANTS the nanny to be Chinese.

I have a Chinese friend whose son was the only Asian in his school and not feeling great about being the different kid. She sat him down and pointed out how many great things come from China. Like his Transformer toys. Next day he's strutting around pointing out how cool Chinese things are to his friends. Suddenly all the little blonde kids want to be Chinese because (they're now convinced) that's where the Transformers live.

They're SEVEN. I'd hope we instruct and explain rather then eject them from the car because they say something that we as adults deem offensive. (Which is why I'd have asked him about it as soon as it popped out of his mouth.)

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by CMMom

A couple of corrections:

1. The remarks did not happen on two consecutive days. One was Monday, one was Wednesday (small difference, I realize, but just need to be accurate).

2. As I mentioned in my original post, I have had a discussion with my son regarding why the remark was both wrong and unacceptable and how we in our family do not speak in a disparaging way about any group of people. I take issue with your statement: "Tacitly accepting these types of things because you need the car pool buddy is a horrible message she is sending her child." I most assuredly am not accepting this (tacitly or otherwise), and I assure you that if I felt the child or family was overtly racist, I would not continue the carpool, period. Please don't insinuate otherwise. It's also easy to condemn me for needing this carpool, but please don't judge without understanding the reasons why I need the carpool. That feels quite judgmental.

There is nothing wrong with judging a situation and people's responses to it. And based on what you have stated here, I gave my opinion. I stand by it.

And fyi, if the child is an OVERT racist (not that I ever said such a thing) there is nothing TACIT about the situation. But yes, by your own admission, you said nothing to the child at the time, nothing to the child at a later date, nothing later on when he kept saying your nanny "sounds chinese" even after he had been corrected, and then still continue to accept this child as a friend. That is the definition of tacit acceptance of their actions.

3. I understand that you have the right to your opinion and I do respect it,

Except in the above point where you tell me not to give it?

but I have had enough exposure to this family to feel that this behavior is an anomaly and that they are not monsters. I am not prepared to "dump this kid and his family" or to label him as "a brat."

Then don't. You asked what others would do in your position. I told you and the reason for it. No one said you had to listen to me. But it is clear that I feel much more strongly that what the child said was unacceptable as I would have stopped the car, pulled both kids out of class if need be, to calmly explain that what the child said was unkind, unacceptable, and if he said such around me or mine later that would be our last car ride.

4. Since my last post, my husband actually ran into the child's father today at the pool with the kids and had the discussion with him. It went fine, and the Dad was very surprised to hear what had been said and expressed bafflement over where his son might have heard such things. My husband felt he was being sincere. Given that I have no other evidence to believe he was being less than honest, I'm going to give the whole family the benefit of a doubt. I am, however, going to keep my ears wide open and be prepared to immediately handle any additional incidents.

After letting the first few slide? That isn't a mixed message?

Anyway, sounds like things worked out to your convenience since you need this carpool so badly.

[CMMom]

Would I have bothered to compose the original post if I wasn't troubled about the situation? Give me a little credit here. My first inclination in a situation that is completely out of sync with every experience I've had with a person/family is not to go in with both guns a blazin'; if that's your preference and approach, so be it. My preference is to think and consult with others if needed before I go off on someone like you're suggesting I should have done, especially a family I've been acquainted with for several years prior to any objectionable statements whatsoever being made. But, different strokes.

We spoke to the parents. Not sure what else you would have me do at this point. I feel that the situation as it stands currently has been resolved. If another incident occurs, I will deal with it. Maybe you're not a working Mom and don't understand why I would rely on this carpool, and that's fine.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by CMMom

Would I have bothered to compose the original post if I wasn't troubled about the situation? Give me a little credit here.

I said I clearly care more, not that you care not at all. I am sorry you cannot understand that distinction.

My first inclination in a situation that is completely out of sync with every experience I've had with a person/family is not to go in with both guns a blazin'; if that's your preference and approach, so be it.

You think saying something CALMLY (as I clearly stated) when it happens, is "guns a blazin'??? Really?

My preference is to think and consult with others if needed before I go off on someone like you're suggesting I should have done, especially a family I've been acquainted with for several years prior to any objectionable statements whatsoever being made. But, different strokes.

Thats your perrogative.

We spoke to the parents. Not sure what else you would have me do at this point. I feel that the situation as it stands currently has been resolved. If another incident occurs, I will deal with it. Maybe you're not a working Mom and don't understand why I would rely on this carpool, and that's fine.

Did you watch Nana's link? Maybe implicit racism is not something that concerns you. It is something that deeply concerns me. If this situation had happened to me I would be MOST concerned with my child's response to it. From your child's perspective, when someone says something racist, you ignore it. Great, you told your kid racism is unacceptable, but since you have said nothing to the child who said the comments, then you have shown him that you still accept it at least at some level.

And yes, I am a working mother, of a multiracial child. So while she is not black and wouldn't have been directly hurt by such a comment, I wouldn't want her to think people are allowed to say those things without at least being told it is unacceptable.