How do men know their kids are truly theirs?

[Lilac110]

Originally Posted by nald

I think that my posts are exactly as they should be.

You would. That is the tricky thing about delusion.

[weltschmerz]

I've argued it and will always say it - a guy who raises someone else's child
unsuspectedly is generally a guy who never had a doubt about it. It's definitely
not a guy who's going to demand the woman to go through paternity procedure or a
guy who's going to walk away on her. I'm really annoyed that you make me repeat
my words.

Nald, I annoy you? Aw, that's a shame. I don't know how I'll sleep tonight, tossing and turning in sweat-soaked sheets, knowing I have annoyed a veritable delight like you.

[glass_of_merlot]

If you don't have trust in a relationship you have nothing. The OP doesn't seem to think this is an important criteria because he grew up in a broken home where trust were just not there. I hope one day he will find a wife he loves enough to trust her. But if you have been burnt once you don't want to be burnt again.
It will be interesting to hear what dad says when asked if mom was a **** and slept around.

[nald]

Originally Posted by Ascension2012

Thats a good point, but wouldnt you like to at least know? AS a man, dont you deserve to know if the child you are raising is biologically yours? Or is the fact that you married a woman who sleeps around behind your back and fools you into thinking the kid is yours, not really all that important? I have absolutely nothing against a man raising a child that isnt biologicaly his, provided he KNOWS.

Most hilarious part - I really wonder if any woman would actually get along with her husband bringing a child conceived with his lover into their marriage and telling her that they should raise it as their mutual child. Just for the needs of an argument, imagine if the biological mother died and the father decided to pursue custody over his child and then he brings the child into their mutual home and says to his wife - "you know, you told me yesterday that you want a child? Well, here's one, you don't need to undergo pregnancy and you'll be grateful for my brilliance until forever!"

I just wonder how long would it take before he figures out that biology does matter, especially if he conceived a child on the side during their marriage, and especially if he tries to bring it into their mutual home to be raised mutually by the woman that he lied to and slept behind her back.

Originally Posted by timberline742

First of all, lots of states don't include fathers on BCs anymore. They shouldn't be on there IMO.

Second, the answer to your question is economics. I think you know that.

Even the economics would be much easier if there was a common database where new children could easily compare the results. No "father" could run away from it, as everyone would be in the database sooner or later, or their children would.
State already covers funding when mother chases the father for paternity testing. If they could skip the court procedures due to simple check in a database, they would save lots of money. If you also add the part where medical treatments for children would be way easier and even cheaper for being more precise, you get more to the story. I've already said - close to 400,000 paternity tests and court procedures in 2010, vs close to 4,000,000 babies being born. Court expenses are exponentially high, plus the costs of various attorneys and "experts". There is NO economic explanation for this. None. And neither is there an explanation that it benefits the society, especially since DNA database of every citizen could be used to issue legal documents and track potential criminals much faster, all they would need to do is take DNA samples from the crime scene, process them and compare them to what they have in their comprehensive database.
Do you know how subtly did the same lobbyists started arguing against the recent case of DNA sampling approval by the Supreme Court? Once again they started clouding it with corporations, insurance companies and denying the potential insurance, etc... even though there is a specific law against it, among with other laws that prevent it.
Even the present law regulating DNA sampling was redundant when it comes to insurance companies potentially denying you the right to be insured. Even though the law was supposedly there to deal with insurance companies, and prosecute them, it has never been used for such purpose, but its real purpose was what it is used for anyways - chasing guys who conduct paternity tests "illegally" without the knowledge or approval of the mother.

I've already argued that guys generally walk away on mere suspicion that the child isn't their own, or they demand the test to be done after which it's broken beyond repair since the mother will change her stance. So much about it - mandatory testing upon birth would avoid such destructive consequences for so many couples... but yeah, misogyny, name-calling, etc.
It's worth mentioning that most guys don't even suspect of marital infidelity and simply do the anonymous testing out of curiosity. Some of them will find out the bad news and will conduct the testing again - and then they'll pursue ways to kick their name off the birth certificate. It would definitely be the longest week in their life, waiting for the re-testing to be done, since it takes 3-7 days. And they would start a legal proceeding to avoid the fraud from becoming permanent. It makes them misogynists, and I'm also misogynist for speaking about it. No woman has ever committed adultery and no guy has ever raised a child that isn't his own without being aware of it. Some people really want to impose a taboo on that, it won't work.

Originally Posted by Lilac110

You would. That is the tricky thing about delusion.

There's this story about "real men" and "my husbands" and stuff.... I guess this means that hundreds of thousands of anonymous paternity tests are done by misogynists, and the same amount of court-ordered tests are also in the procedure because of misogyny. Yeah, some people do deserve to be called out and shamed, because they will never back down. Let me tell you: you don't define who a man is. No matter how much you wish you do. Many people attempt to get there, including, but not limited to mainstream media, legislation, educational system, you aren't an exception.
Society still doesn't let go on the old ways when it could enforce what a guy should think and how to act and they still use the last resorts even though the maneuverable space is shrinking with each new generation.

Originally Posted by weltschmerz

Nald, I annoy you? Aw, that's a shame. I don't know how I'll sleep tonight, tossing and turning in sweat-soaked sheets, knowing I have annoyed a veritable delight like you.

I might start reporting spam in this topic, but I suspect that people are free to taunt, destroy topic by diverting its course, etc, and nothing will happen. Thread will simply get locked when "someone" decides it's time to do so.

[nald]

Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot

If you don't have trust in a relationship you have nothing. The OP doesn't seem to think this is an important criteria because he grew up in a broken home where trust were just not there. I hope one day he will find a wife he loves enough to trust her. But if you have been burnt once you don't want to be burnt again.
It will be interesting to hear what dad says when asked if mom was a **** and slept around.

No, the OP opened this thread that has been in here many times before. And it always ends up the same way (guess how). He did it deliberately to draw attention and responses. Same people keep bringing same responses. The way you word it is what's wrong. You never left any chance that a guy might do the test out of curiosity. No, it's obviously a mistrust, misogyny, insert-your-predesigned-label-here.
I guess you won't reason that everyone thinks that you are a thief just because they have sensors and codes to catch the thieves. I have already said, if I were a woman I'd be the first to lobby for such law because not only that I'd consider that I have nothing to hide, I' also a person who feels more comfortable when I enter the place and when I know that the codes are there. Otherwise I'd feel the need to be distanced from the stuff that they sell, to avoid even being potentially a suspect. I've had such feeling in certain places and it isn't pleasant.

And this is generally the main topic. Women in this society and on this forum don't reason the same way. You should trust me. Fine. But hey, look around yourself, do you see something illogical? The same posters who reason this way are the same posters who will be against enforcement of supporting your own children. They would be against such de-regulation because they inherently view it in a context where a guy would opt not to pay for child support after a divorce/separation or after siring a child and moving on. They wouldn't consider such law as a way to show any mistrust towards parents, most notably fathers in their own minds.

And why on earth would you support such folks with their notion that paternity testing shouldn't be mandatory? Economical excuse doesn't hold water. Not even the interest of society fares any better as an excuse. Not even the child's best interest. It's only the mother's convenience and the society goes out of its way and against the interst of everyone else (including the best interest of society itself) to make it more convenient for the mothers to potentially be able to commit a fraud and get away with it.
You just realize that it boils down to deliberate laws and practices that are not only counter-productive, but are also uneconomical, unethical, and actually contribute to further erosion of both trust and society in general. Why on earth does the USA even have to have all those paternity tests being done in an anonymous and semi-legal way? Does it make them feel any better? I mean, they'll never know if their own husband or potentially son or son-in-law would resort to those anonymous tests.

This kind of attitude displayed on this topic should thus be publicly exposed, since they really have neither shame nor a grain of honesty to admit that they are wrong. All they can resort is to call everyone else as misogynist and force them into anonymity of the internet because very few folks would even have such option to tell it publicly. I guess they'll also call themselves liberals or libertarians at least, because it sounds great to use such word to describe yourself. Even if you act like a rigid communist and ban others from speaking their mind, threatening with penalties and sanctions.

[GER308]

When my ex wife got pregnant I had no doubt and demanding a paternity test would be more than insulting. We were engaged when she got pregnant. Perhaps if I were not in a committed relationship with the person or had a good reason to be suspicious I could understand.

That said if I were to find out today that my daughter was not biologically mine I would really not care, she is my daughter, I cut the Umbilical cord and have been with her since. She has been living with me full time for the last year and we have a great relationship.