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I'd like to get some opinions from parents on the following ground rules for two young girls in NYC: a twelve year old (just turned twelve last month) and a fourteen year old (will turn fifteen in two months); both trying to go on eighteen- you know how that goes.
The girls are responsible and get good grades, but exhibit VERY bratty behavior at times (more so with the younger). And often talk down to my wife; very disrespectfully at times. My wife is a doting Mom that makes their beds for them, helps with homework and studying every single night (when she backs off the studying and homework a little, the grades end up dropping; they’ve come to rely on her help too much), and she blows their hair, lays their clothes out, etc. I tell her that they've become so used to this lifestyle that they've come to expect it. My wife is like a personal valet.
Now, like I said, the girls are, for the very most part, obedient and good; just very moody, disrespectful at times, and strong willed; at times they push back. This is to be expected at this age, I am fully aware of testing boundaries, finding oneself, becoming more independent, etc. But, it seems to come at price in our family. The price being real happiness it seems. I feel the girls view me, the only real disciplinarian, as over protective, overly strict, and unfair; to be tolerated since I’m so insistent on them following the rules. My wife, for lack of better terminology, is VERY weak on discipline, lets them talk down to her unchecked (this they’ve become used to and often have to hear me correct them when they absentmindedly, talk down to me- I don’t tolerate this). When I do discipline now, as they are getting older, because of their used to treating the Mother badly, the times I need to put my foot down, devolves into yelling matches. I feel badly, they are perpetually mad at me; hence the unhappiness. I’ve thought about going to either family counseling, or counseling for my wife and me. I really believe my wife’s permissiveness of the disrespect they show her, coupled with the doting Mom treatment she consistently gives them, and her never backing me up; she often acts like I’m unreasonable when the discipline time comes, is making parenting difficult at best.
These are the ground rules I think should be followed, with exception (I’m not a tyrant); please give me your thoughts. I’m really only interested in thoughts and opinions, from healthy, well-adjusted families. If your family is in turmoil, please don’t offer advice. I’m trying to successfully resolve the issues my families experiencing. I say this with the utmost respect to this forum community.
Now, the 'Ground rules' in question:
1. When out playing in playground, park etc, home before sunset, no exceptions. When out an occasional test to Mom saying hi, as a check in. An actual phone call when heading home (the older girl is permitted to take public transportation to secure, neighboring area in Queens, NY. We live in a secure area (as secure as one can get in NYC).
2. All homework should be completed before laptops/smartphone play.
3. All smartphones off at 9pm sharp every week night; 10pm on weekends.
4. On weekend days designated to visit relatives; no arguments. Any plans with friends, on weekends are to be checked with Mom and Dad prior to the weekend, when possible.
5. No daily makeup before sixteen. On special occasions, light makeup with Mom and Dad’s approval.
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others.
7. No high heels exceeding 2 inches.
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc.
9. Smartphones silenced, and in a designated basket, in Mom and Dad’s bedroom, when homework/studying is underway. When all complete, can use.
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better.
Am I an unreasonable Father?
Thanks for any advice/opinions/ thoughts in advance.
Last edited by JohnnyDoe; 11-01-2015 at 02:21 PM..
1. Home before sunset.Below you say home right after school. Which is it?
2. All homework should be completed before laptops/smartphone play.
3. All smartphones off at 9pm sharp every week night; 10pm on weekends. It is polite not to call people after 9, but it seems a little early to say no phone at all (they could still be checking e-mail, playing games, or whatever)
4. On the weekend days designated to visit relatives; no arguments. Any plans with friends, on weekends are to be checked with Mom and Dad prior to the weekend, when possible.Plans should be cleared with you first, but really? every weekend visiting relatives? That's too much IMO
5. No daily makeup before sixteen. On special occasions, light makeup with Mom and Dad’s approval.Too strict. I started playing with makeup in middle school. So did everyone else.
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others.
7. No high heels exceeding 2 inches. Ever? What about school dances, etc?
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc.
9. Smartphones silenced, and in a designated basket, in Mom and Dad’s bedroom, when homework/studying is underway. When all complete, can use.OK, but is this really necessary?
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better. Some kids aren't capable of this.
Am I an unreasonable Father? Thanks for any advice/opinions/ thoughts in advance.
I think you are a bit strict. I think you aren't allowing your kids to gain your trust because you don't allow them any slack. Is it not enough to say "you can't use your phones while you study? Do you really have to have them hidden away in your room?
I suggest you start family meetings and negotiate some of these rules. You will have your non-negotiable points, but bending a bit really makes a difference in compliance.
We were going on a family vacation with our teens. We negotiated the rules and they didn't break one single one! Not in 9 days and while having their own room, cash and transportation. When their mom (my step kids) would take them on trips, she would set down a list of rules and the entire trip would be a nightmare of them breaking everyone and things like them being locked out of their hotel room or showing up drunk. I learned something really important from that about teens and rules.
I feel the girls view me, the only real disciplinarian, as over protective, overly strict, and unfair; to be tolerated since I’m so insistent on them following the rules. My wife, for lack of better terminology, is VERY weak on discipline, lets them talk down to her unchecked (this they’ve become used to and often have to hear me correct them when they absentmindedly, talk down to me- I don’t tolerate this). When I do discipline now, as they are getting older, because of their used to treating the Mother badly, the times I need to put my foot down, devolves into yelling matches. I feel badly, they are perpetually mad at me; hence the unhappiness. I’ve thought about going to either family counseling, or counseling for my wife and me. I really believe my wife’s permissiveness of the disrespect they show her, coupled with the doting Mom treatment she consistently gives them, and her never backing me up; she often acts like I’m unreasonable when the discipline time comes, is making parenting difficult at best.
This ^^^ is sad. If your wife continues to place herself in this role, the girls probably always treat her like a servant. This can create a transactional approach to relationships, as in "I like you when you can do something for me." She needs to start handing over the grooming process to them, so they can be more self-reliant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDoe
Now, the 'Ground rules' in question:
1. When out playing in playground, park etc, home before sunset, no exceptions. When out an occasional test to Mom saying hi, as a check in. An actual phone call when heading home (the older girl is permitted to take public transportation to secure, neighboring area in Queens, NY. We live in a secure area (as secure as one can get in NYC). Check in BEFORE heading out.
2. All homework should be completed before laptops/smartphone play.
3. All smartphones off at 9pm sharp every week night; 10pm on weekends.
4. On weekend days designated to visit relatives; no arguments. This seems unattainable and unenforceable. People need to learn how to resolve conflict. Better read up on "fair fighting." Any plans with friends, on weekends are to be checked with Mom and Dad prior to the weekend, when possible. Don't make rules and then say "when possible." It's either a rule or it isn't. One of my sons made plans on his phone as he was getting off the school bus. We had to tell him that he was free to make plans but we also were free to modify them if his plans did not work well with OUR plans.
5. No daily makeup before sixteen. On special occasions, light makeup with Mom and Dad’s approval. They should be able to use blush and maybe concealer at 14 and 15. There's some perfectly appropriate wiggle room between "Amish" and "Kardashian."
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others. Should be more specific.
7. No high heels exceeding 2 inches.
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc. How does this work in winter when it gets dark at 4:30?
9. Smartphones silenced, and in a designated basket, in Mom and Dad’s bedroom, when homework/studying is under way. When all complete, can use. Works for us.
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better. Do you have a plan for monitoring and "correcting" this if it ISN'T above 85?
Am I an unreasonable Father?
Thanks for any advice/opinions/ thoughts in advance.
My thoughts are in red. Your girls are too young for you to have to "negotiate" these rules. They seem very reasonable to me.
I always reserved veto power anyway, and they knew that up front.
Thanks for the reply Kibbiekat. I'll clarify as best I can...
The Ground rules:
1. Home before sunset. Below you say home right after school. Which is it? -Home before sunset on weekends, with the periodic check-ins described. During the school week, as a general rule, baring any extenuating circumstances, directly home after school. no milling about. My older girl's high-school is in Jamaica Queens- not the safest area.
2. All homework should be completed before laptops/smartphone play.
3. All smartphones off at 9pm sharp every week night; 10pm on weekends. It is polite not to call people after 9, but it seems a little early to say no phone at all (they could still be checking e-mail, playing games, or whatever). Actually, we do let them use ipad and laptop for playing games, YouTube music video watching etc. It's just excessive texting I'm worried about. The unending conversions, perpetual conversations, and group chats between many people. A little voyeuristic if one is just watching a conversion, no? That is a concern for me... maybe too much of a worry? ugh...
4. On the weekend days designated to visit relatives; no arguments. Any plans with friends, on weekends are to be checked with Mom and Dad prior to the weekend, when possible.Plans should be cleared with you first, but really? every weekend visiting relatives? That's too much IMO- Not every weekend. But on those days we've planned to visit, I think they should be accepting of that, again within reason. If a friends birthday, or special outing is taking place, I'm reasonable; not a gestapo
5. No daily makeup before sixteen. On special occasions, light makeup with Mom and Dad’s approval.Too strict. I started playing with makeup in middle school. So did everyone else. - So too strict in your opinion?
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others.
7. No high heels exceeding 2 inches. Ever? What about school dances, etc? - twelve and fourteen... six inch stilettos?
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc.
9. Smartphones silenced, and in a designated basket, in Mom and Dad’s bedroom, when homework/studying is underway. When all complete, can use.OK, but is this really necessary? - They constantly have in hand, and I can't help that the incessant beeps and pings of those unending, perpetual conversations, are a distraction when studying, reading, working out math problems, etc.
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better. Some kids aren't capable of this. What is the alternative? They've been doing okay, except the reliance on Mom. Mom makes it easier. Better to have someone reading to/with you rather than do on your own. With effort, which they are more than capable of, 85% plus is not out of their reach. Having a valet, homework helper, can make one a little lazy. They can do, if in the habit, on their own
Thanks for the reply Kibbiekat. I'll clarify as best I can...
The Ground rules:
1. Home before sunset. Below you say home right after school. Which is it? -Home before sunset on weekends, with the periodic check-ins described. During the school week, as a general rule, baring any extenuating circumstances, directly home after school. no milling about. My older girl's high-school is in Jamaica Queens- not the safest area.
2. All homework should be completed before laptops/smartphone play.
3. All smartphones off at 9pm sharp every week night; 10pm on weekends. It is polite not to call people after 9, but it seems a little early to say no phone at all (they could still be checking e-mail, playing games, or whatever). Actually, we do let them use ipad and laptop for playing games, YouTube music video watching etc. It's just excessive texting I'm worried about. The unending conversions, perpetual conversations, and group chats between many people. A little voyeuristic if one is just watching a conversion, no? That is a concern for me... maybe too much of a worry? ugh...
4. On the weekend days designated to visit relatives; no arguments. Any plans with friends, on weekends are to be checked with Mom and Dad prior to the weekend, when possible.Plans should be cleared with you first, but really? every weekend visiting relatives? That's too much IMO- Not every weekend. But on those days we've planned to visit, I think they should be accepting of that, again within reason. If a friends birthday, or special outing is taking place, I'm reasonable; not a gestapo
5. No daily makeup before sixteen. On special occasions, light makeup with Mom and Dad’s approval.Too strict. I started playing with makeup in middle school. So did everyone else. - So too strict in your opinion?
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others.
7. No high heels exceeding 2 inches. Ever? What about school dances, etc? - twelve and fourteen... six inch stilettos?
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc.
9. Smartphones silenced, and in a designated basket, in Mom and Dad’s bedroom, when homework/studying is underway. When all complete, can use.OK, but is this really necessary? - They constantly have in hand, and I can't help that the incessant beeps and pings of those unending, perpetual conversations, are a distraction when studying, reading, working out math problems, etc.
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better. Some kids aren't capable of this. What is the alternative? They've been doing okay, except the reliance on Mom. Mom makes it easier. Better to have someone reading to/with you rather than do on your own. With effort, which they are more than capable of, 85% plus is not out of their reach. Having a valet, homework helper, can make one a little lazy. They can do, if in the habit, on their own
I hope this clears it a little.
Excessive texting can happen any time. Not sure ending it at 9pm will really accomplish your goal.
Not what you said originally. If visits are only occasional, they shouldn't be expected to always assume there is a family visit planned. They should still have to clear their plans with you.
You said 2 inches, not 6. 3 inches is a standard heel height. That's what I wore to formal dances starting in 9th grade. This right here makes it sound like your rules are over the top. No one said 6 inch heels were acceptable, but that's where your mind went. Why?
This ^^^ is sad. If your wife continues to place herself in this role, the girls probably always treat her like a servant. This can create a transactional approach to relationships, as in "I like you when you can do something for me." She needs to start handing over the grooming process to them, so they can be more self-reliant.
My thoughts are in red. Your girls are too young for you to have to "negotiate" these rules. They seem very reasonable to me.
I always reserved veto power anyway, and they knew that up front.
Thank you WMSN4Life (and the others as well; i'll try to reply to all).
To answer WMSN4Life:
Good suggestions on the other points, here are some clarifications and thoughts on your questions...
6. No tight or revealing clothing; all clothes should be respectful to oneself and others. Should be more specific. - No bellies, sides (bra), exposed. No super tight pants, no super short/tight shorts. Just decent and respectful. No sexy clothes. I don;t want he girls to think that is where they should derive self esteem from. Negative attention bad; positive attention is good.
8. Home right after school. If plans are to be made with friends, they should be cleared with parents. Come home, change, plan for homework to be done later, then can go out. But, the general rule is home after school, homework/done, then leisure. Again, allowances can be made on occasion, as long as grades are where they should be, etc. How does this work in winter when it gets dark at 4:30? I was thinking even after 4:30 here in the north east. I don't know how to handle that.
10. GPA must be 85% or higher. 90% preferably. Always strive for better. Do you have a plan for monitoring and "correcting" this if it ISN'T above 85? - We get periodic reports from an online site they use called 'Eline'. I can get calculate the average from that. The rule has been that hey iphone will be taken if drops below. But, I don't want to take their phones really. i think i should substitute another measure.
Excessive texting can happen any time. Not sure ending it at 9pm will really accomplish your goal.
Not what you said originally. If visits are only occasional, they shouldn't be expected to always assume there is a family visit planned. They should still have to clear their plans with you.
You said 2 inches, not 6. 3 inches is a standard heel height. That's what I wore to formal dances starting in 9th grade. This right here makes it sound like your rules are over the top. No one said 6 inch heels were acceptable, but that's where your mind went. Why?
Why- Well I was using levity a little- stilettos was a joke. But- I don't want my young daughters, again just twelve and fourteen, to be sexualized. I think that pop culture, and the media, are way over the top with this. I don't want them to think that that is how they should get attention from boys necessarily. They have A LOT going for them from the neck up. I'd like them to derive self respect and confidence from their intellect primarily. I know they'll want to be viewed as pretty and attractive, I just don't think high heels on a 12 ans 14 year old is appropriate. :/
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