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Old 08-28-2016, 08:15 AM
 
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My daughter, now 33 and a school teacher (specializing in autistic and developmentally delayed children) was (no one told me there was a 'clinical diagnosis') 'selectively mute' in first grade. She also exhibited quite a few other oppositional behaviours during her childhood. It was very frustrating when I began to hear from the school that she refused to speak in class at all. And when it continued for much of the year (till I pulled her out of that school for an entirely different reason), 'we' as parents were 'investigated' which was traumatic for all of us. No one ever suggested to us that perhaps our daughter was 'sick' - the only suggestion was really that we must be mistreating her (which was definitely NOT the case and that was proven in time).


On the other hand, she was reading and writing well at age 3, long before she ever went to formal school. She was obviously very, very bright - and we knew that. Proving it to the school on the other hand was difficult. I do think though that focussing on that as a 'problem' over time just reinforced it and until we removed her from there to a place where no one knew about it, she continued to 'use' it.


But, we didn't really know much about the psychology of it all back then so we just bumbled through, trying one thing after another. We also thought that school was not where she should be (after a broken leg incident that I talked about in some other thread a while back) so we put her in a private school. At that point, she began talking - but still was incredibly stubborn (and dare I say ... manipulative or so it looked - she got attention by not speaking at first and then by other behaviours subsequent to that) .. and that part has never changed. It actually illustrated how 'bright' she was that she somehow (most likely unconsciously) came up with attention getting strategies, one after the other. Makes me laugh now when I think back about it all.


But she was academically quite advanced - in fact, she accelerated a year. She claimed she was just 'shy'. But, she was gifted musically so we put her in singing lessons - which sometimes pleased her, sometimes not - and there were more than a few embarrassing moments when she would freeze when asked to sing in front of others, and would just plain refuse. It made me sad .. not just for us .. but for her. She had a wonderful voice and she taught herself to control her world by not using it. She is still fighting herself on that one I think which is a shame - but she is also finding a few outlets for it through teaching/using music with her students. She has probably learned to deal with more of these issues better now as an adult to be honest because she has to also deal with the consequences herself - there is no one around to do it for her any more.


I am stubborn myself so I bought that one (although it was more difficult to handle than I expected - and in 7th grade she was kicked out of a private school - not for not speaking, but just for not cooperating). I am not particularly shy though .. so that was hard to grasp when it came to her. At any rate, I am not inside her mind so I cannot say what was/is even today going on there - but she is amazingly now teaching children with similar issues.


My question to the OP .. are you absolutely certain that your daughter is not fully capable of reading, etc. - whether she has refused in the past to do so or not? Just because she didn't speak, in our case anyway, we all knew that she 'could' if she wanted to. Because I knew that she 'could', for the most part, I just 'expected' she would eventually and tried to let it go at that. And eventually she did speak when it didn't get her much attention when she wouldn't.


Having said all that, I don't know the correct answer for YOUR child obviously. And what we did years ago in our complete ignorance about there even being a 'condition' that one must 'treat' clinically in our child was 'seat of the pants' thinking I guess if I look back at it now. That being so though, knowing what we experienced, if we had even been allowed to do so - and I am not sure we could under the system where we lived - I would have seriously considered homeschooling for a while. I think I would have been even more interested in that if she had truly had trouble with reading and writing. Or if she were really behind in those areas, I might have tried to find a tutor to work with her to get her up to grade standards - and help her realize her own potential there - so she would have a bit more 'self-esteem' if need be to cope better at a regular school.


And by the way .. when homeschooling you have a LOT more flexibility about how you handle the 'teaching aspect'. You don't have to continually sit your child down and do workbooks etc. You can teach them in many other ways - every opportunity you get you inject a 'lesson' into it. If your child is an artist - you can teach math, science, reading, all sorts of things through that medium alone and your child won't even know they are learning. You know YOUR child and how to work with her, what fascinates her .. be creative and you will learn a lot yourself.


'Socialization' is a good thing (though I am not sure in our case it was 'the' problem or 'the' solution) but I know (because I have a friend who homeschools her 3 boys and they are amazingly social) that it needn't only be done through homeschool associations (in fact hers never have gone to homeschool association functions at all). Whether one homeschools or not though, one can put one's child into lessons of all kinds (and I might suggest you even consider martial arts - strange thing about that ... that sort of training often seems to bring out the best in most kids and with troubled ones, it can often achieve miracles) - but if you say your daughter is very talented in art, I am sure you can find a way to incorporate some sort of social interaction through that avenue as well.


I know it is not much comfort now at this difficult stage but I hope (and am reasonably certain) that your child 'will' learn coping skills over time no matter what you do/what school you put her in - and will grow up to be a reasonably well adjusted adult.

Last edited by Aery11; 08-28-2016 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:24 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,932,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacNWMama View Post
[QUOTE"My daughter cried at bedtime and in the mornings as she vehemently resisted going to school. When her accumulated wet-on-wet “artwork” came home, I was aware that, unlike her prolific creative drawing done at home, at school the self expression we had anticipated was actually being frustratingly suppressed."
Well..it's interesting that it sounds like this parent is describing a long period of time that her daughter was behaving this way. I wonder how long she waited to pull her out? I didn't read it all but I would have pulled mine out long before it built up enough history to even write about it. Sounds like a messed up experience but I cannot imagine they are all this way. Or why would they be so popular? Hmm...thanks for the info though.[/quote]

Waldorf is extremely standardized. All of its teachers must be Waldorf certified. The art is definitely intended for the kids to do all the same work. They used to have lots of examples of the art up, but many of the pages have been deleted.

https://eugenewaldorf.org/programs/curriculum/art

Our Brush with Rudolf Steiner by Sharon Lombard

My experiences with Waldorf - Montessori Answers

Fairy-tale fallout - New Zealand Listener

Quote:
One odd aspect they noticed was that some staff actively discouraged children from writing with their left hands. Rudolf Steiner, they would later discover, believed left-handedness was something to do with “karmic weakness”, or exhaustion from a past life.
This may not have happened with all the teachers in this school, but back in the 30s, my mother was in this position - the public schools would not let her write left-handed even though she had a disability in her right arm. When my sister went to school, my mom was vigilant about this and showed the teachers that all it took to write properly left-handed was to slant the paper the opposite way from the way it was slanted for right-handers.

They

Note that all Waldorf schools discourage the use of black and brown crayons which really hinders children of color who want to draw pictures that reflect their skin tone.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:29 AM
 
2,609 posts, read 2,509,376 times
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Quote:
Thanks for the info! I am curious at what grade level were the kids coming into public school from Waldorf? I am asking because my Waldorf teacher neighbor said children will be behind academically (by public school standards) until about middle school and then they actually end up surpassing their grade level and do quite well.
Interesting-- I had heard that as well; partially because it's my understanding they "follow the child's lead" to some extent when it comes to things like reading, and they don't pick up a pencil for writing until sometime in 2nd grade, etc.

Anyway, to answer your question, several of them transitioned in elementary school and had difficulty. When I was a classroom teacher, I had a 5th grader transfer in (middle school started in 6th where I was) and she had significant difficulty (but was a great artist ). I worked in a different middle school than the one located closer to Waldorf, so I only had experience with one child who transferred from Waldorf there. He was also behind, but he ended up qualifying for special education. Had he been getting services all along, he might have been doing better by middle school (but we don't know that for sure).

The other interesting finding (in my "n of 1" experience) was how ill-equipped the school was to deal with behavioral differences. I worked in student support services, and since the school was a public charter, they called us in quite a bit to try to deal with behavioral issues for kids who could not handle the freedom given them.

You know your child best. I was also thinking the curriculum being behind might work in your child's favor. If there is an actual disability there, however, then when other kids are catching up in middle school, your daughter might not be one of those kids. In that case, she'd probably be better served by getting intensive support earlier on.

As an added thought- I have limited experience with Montessori and Waldorf. Both of my experiences come from being a specialist being called into the schools (not from actually working there). In generally, my opinion of Waldorf is more favorable than Montessori for elementary school. (I've seen both up through middle school)
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:07 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,868,996 times
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The big thing is getting her as caught up in reading as quickly as you can, without adding so much pressure that it causes regression on the anxiety front. By 3rd/4th grade classes other than English/Reading are becoming reading intensive (the shift from "learn to read" to "read to learn", so weaknesses in literacy become more detrimental. Whether you place her in the Waldorf school or the public school, I'd be looking to supplement with tutoring by someone who is knowledgeable about early literacy and has a track record of success in the area. At the public school there's a good chance they have a Title I and/or intervention program - the advantages of using a school-based program are that it'd be free for you and integrated with school expectations, but you'll want to make sure they have trained reading instructors running it (as opposed to foisting the duty off on some random coach or something).

If you aren't already, I might suggest getting her into something non-academic that she really enjoys and can shine a bit at - can help prevent self-esteem from getting too tied up in school performance. Dance, music, visual arts, sports, volunteering, etc.

Good luck and good on you for looking out for your daughter Congrats to her on coming so far already!
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Old 08-28-2016, 02:41 PM
 
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With the money you can save on tuition by putting her in a public school, maybe you can afford and find a decent tutor that she'll click with. I agree wholeheartedly about her self-esteem but she sounds bright. I bet she can catch up quickly with the right person.

I always thought tutoring at that age could be made fun so a Saturday morning session would be eagerly anticipated. I hope your daughter has a fantastic school year! And YAY for speaking!!!
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:02 PM
 
396 posts, read 436,053 times
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If you are in a good school district with a strong special education program, consider putting your daughter in second grade at the public school. I would talk to the school about having her placed in a co-taught classroom, with a regular ed teacher and a special education teacher. Maybe, eventually the teachers can advocate for a paraprofessional or aide to work with your daughter 1:1 throughout the day, at least for the first year back. It will be overwhelming in the beginning, but I think as long as you advocate for your daughter, she will catch up and be a-ok! Best of luck.
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Fairfield of the Ohio
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Please put her in a small private school or hire someone to home school her. While public school systems are supposed to provide an IEP for special needs children, only the very wealthy ones can provide an adequate service to these children without causing the children are on track to suffer.
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Old 08-28-2016, 05:25 PM
 
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A vote for home schooling. As far as socialization: Done right (meaning not some hide-away-from-society-religious-nut home schooling, which is what everyone seems to want to trot out at times like this), your child gets MORE socialization of the type you want. Meaning, your child will interact more with people of ALL ages, not just children her own age and some authority figure adults.

As far as your abilities (and patience level): Everyone is different. I can't guarantee that you can do it, but I can be pretty certain that you are selling yourself short. You need to remember that home school does not look like regular school. You do not stand up in front of the room; you don't move from subject to subject on cue.

Home schooling allows your daughter to learn at her own pace and not worry about what everyone else is doing. It allows her to follow her passions. It allows you to specialize her education to fit her type of learning styles (visual, kinesthetic, logical, oral, etc.).

You can still use tutors, but also spend any money savings on memberships and specialty teachers (music, art, etc.).
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:07 PM
 
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I vote for homeschooling first and foremost. If you can't teach the child you chose to have, why expect everyone else to? YOU, the parent, needs to get your baby on the right track for life before you push her onto everyone else and then get upset that they aren't rearing her to YOUR expectations.

Great advice all around the thread though.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:01 PM
 
Location: here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigratingCoconut View Post
I vote for homeschooling first and foremost. If you can't teach the child you chose to have, why expect everyone else to? YOU, the parent, needs to get your baby on the right track for life before you push her onto everyone else and then get upset that they aren't rearing her to YOUR expectations.

Great advice all around the thread though.
Because there are professionals out there who are trained to teach. I expect a lot of people to do things for my kids that I can't. I'm not a trained doctor, for example. That's why I take my kids to a doctor when they're sick.
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