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Do you think that it is better to spank your child when they are bad, or teach them right from wrong/ "making better choices".
Children aren't bad. The spanking debate is clouded in so much emotion and misplaced argument that the real cost/benefit analysis to spanking is completely missed.
People say so long as it is not abuse... The abuse conversation should be left as a completely different conversation. We all know when abuse is abuse, and when the parent is intending to correct their children's bad behavior.
The problem I have with punishment / reward systems is several fold. The reason for the children's bad behavior is not always that they are being jerks. Often times it comes from not knowing the expectation or real consequence of their actions. Take Johnny pulling Sarah's hair. If he is 7, of course he knows. But if he is two, you know what is likely going on in his mind? What IS that? It is all twirled on top of itself. And it is long like a snake. But attached to her head. I wonder what it feels like. I wonder if it comes out. He reaches out and pulls.
You smack him.
What does he learn? Not much.
But if you take him, have him face Sarah and say (after consoling Sarah of course!) look at Sarah. How does her face look? He will be able to tell that she is sad (mad, hurt... whatever). Since you are not the kind of person who likes to make other people (sad, hurt... whatever) (planting the seed to grow that he is NOT that kind of person) what can you do to help Sarah feel better. (Remedy and amends).
That said, kids, especially as they grow, DO sometimes face a conflict between what they know is right and what they want. What they want is going to win unless they know as an immutable fact that I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEM.
The consequences of almost all bad actions offer themselves. You lie, you are not to be trusted. Until trust is regained, your word is not trusted and proof is offered....
Most "bad" behaviors can be easily defused by looking only at their consequences as well. Whether the preschooler pitched his food on the floor because he did not know better or because he wanted to see if he could push your buttons, either way an emotionless handing of the paper towel roll takes care of it.
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Anyway I won't be a total broken record and post another link to my favorite book that brought peace to our tumultuous household. I have posted it aplenty.
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Brief background...I have three brothers on my father's side who were raised by his ex-wife until they were between five and ten. I have a brother on my mother's side (a product of ex husband 2) and a sister on my mother's side (product of ex husband 1). I'm the only full biological child of my mother and father.
The three boys were spanked by the ex wife and my father. When my father married my mother, she refused to let him spank them. I was never spanked, and neither were my brother and sister on my mother's side.
The three boys on my father's side have always been unruly, constantly physically attacked each other growing up, got into fights in the schoolyard, and now spank their children, who all act the same way. The three of us on my mother's side rarely got into trouble, have been more successful in life, and don't think of violence as a way to solve problems.
Does this prove anything? Of course not. But it is interesting that siblings who shared different environments in their formative years have such a sharp difference in behavior.
Random thoughts...
One thing I've never understood is why people say it makes such a big difference if a parent spanks out of anger or not. I'm sure it does make some, but the child still ends up being physically struck, and the pain inflicted is the same. My mother did spank one of my brothers one time. She caught him playing with matches in the attic after she'd punished him in other ways multiple times for doing so. She chased him down the street and spanked him in front of the neighbors, then broke down crying and explained why she was so terrified. She feels guilty about it to this day. In my mind, this very much fear driven spanking was justified, more so than a spanking delivered from anger OR calm. It was also a huge deal because she had never done anything like that before, so it made a much bigger impression than if it was an everyday or weekly ordeal.
I don't know how a parent can justify spanking a child for hitting another child. There's simply no logic behind it, and as a very young child I would have seen it for the hypocritical thing that it is. And I agree fully that very few abusers think they are being abusive, so this theory that "we know abuse when we see it" is false.
ETA: and just to make a comparison between spanking and hitting as so many of you think it's not the same thing.
If you use the same force that you use to spank/swat a child on a child's face, it will most likely leave a red mark and it will hurt. I do not get: why the bottom is considered an okay place to hit, but the face not? What is the difference really??
If a child were to hit another child with the same force anywhere they would get in trouble for hitting. I so don't see how it is different either.
There is nothing respectful about hitting someone. I don't respect men who hit me. I don't respect anyone who hits another human. It does not teach respect. It teaches intimidation, fear,
I agree with this.
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and violence. It is domestic violence. It is child abuse.
As a fairly staunch advocate for NOT spanking, even I cannot get with this. I would go so far as to discredit many of us who think there are MUCH better tools in the discipline toolbox.
The word abuse is a really serious word. My father spanked us. No one could ever have accused him of abusing us. He was an awesome, if misguided on this point, father. He spanked us because the Church advocated spare the rod spoil the child. (Blech.) But in general, he intuited the best of positive discipline methods.
Abuse is rarely a single action or kind of action. It is a pattern and series of non-caring, hurtful, angry, demeaning behavior.
For those who believe spanking is a negative form of punishment, does it stand to reason then that yelling at a child can be an unacceptable form of emotional or verbal abuse?
I believe that at worst yelling is really mean. At best it is really ineffective. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine what GOOD yelling can do.
In other words, spanking parents try to teach consquences for negative behaviors; while parents who may use motivation charts (or something similar) strive to teach reward for positive behaviors. Two separate ends of the spectrum to reach the same results.
In my opinion, every child eventually will need to learn that actions have consequences. These actions usually bring their OWN consequences whether natural or logical. These consequences tend to direct learning better than the arbitrary consequence of hitting. Hitting also has the negative effect of redirecting the child's attention from the misdeed to the pain, embarrassment or injustice from being hit.
That being said, I can count the times I've took a belt to my kids on probly one hand. Maybe I've just been lucky they don't go looking for trouble like some kids do. It's kindly hard though as they don't get to run town either.
A BELT? Sorry but a judge is a judge, and adjucator of law. He has no particular standing where parenting is concerned. And as far as this parent is concerned hitting your child with a belt is just wrong, mean and omg i feel for Iyour children.
If there are people who believe children should be treated the exact same way as adults... give them your car keys... get them a job. What's the difference?
Reading comprehension issues? Where did anyone say they should be treated exactly the same?
Telling me I'll get shocked, at 8 years old, means nothing. Getting shocked did.
THAT is the correct consequence. ALLOWING the non-lethal REAL, NETURAL consequences of actions teaches. Don't go in there or I will hit you? Just teaches you to watch out for the parent and not get caught.
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