Rank Pennsylvania's Cities (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Scranton: cost of, eat, design)

[pman]

Originally Posted by track2514

The size of the city definitely matters when it comes to traffic so I have to disagree with you here. I agree with your second point and when I have lived in Pittsburgh, the Twin Cities, etc. I have chosen to visit my friends in a variety of areas of the cities including the suburbs and take advantage of all of the amenities. Most U.S. cities are relatively car dependent and since there are only so many routes you are bound to deal with traffic in one form or another unless you plan your life around the traffic times. I prefer not having to deal with the traffic, but if I get a decent deal on a flight or want to meet a friend for dinner in the suburbs, I am not going to change my life in order to avoid it.

we're not talking about most US Cities but PA cities which are an entirely different animal than Phoenix of Houston (for better and for worse). If you live in Philadelphia and walk to work or take the subway, what do you care if rush hour traffic is bad? it doesn't take any longer to drive to the wal-mart or target on the waterfront than it does in most suburbs and for most things, you can walk to them. where you live absolutely affects your perception of an area. the same goes for Pittsburgh, outside of rush hour, not having to deal with the squirrell hill tunnel is going to impact the amount of traffic you experience getting from lawrenceville to the strip is far easier than cranberry to the strip. there's a target just up the road in east liberty.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I haven't felt compelled to shop at Wal-Mart in 12 years... somehow I've survived. The other things you mentioned are all available in Pittsburgh city limits, most available in or near Shadyside... one of the city's most convenient and amenity-rich neighborhoods. But let's not allow reality to interfere with talking points.

How many amusement parks are in Shadyside? How many airports? How many malls? How many movie theaters with 20+ screens? How many lakes? How many trout streams? How many ice rinks? I think you get the point and I could go on and on. Many people have different interests and most people leave their little "bubble" and have to deal with traffic at some point. Living in the city does not completely insulate most people from traffic concerns.

[SPSGuy]

Originally Posted by track2514

How many amusement parks are in Shadyside? How many airports? How many malls? How many movie theaters with 20+ screens? How many lakes? How many trout streams? How many ice rinks? I think you get the point and I could go on and on. Many people have different interests and most people leave their little "bubble" and have to deal with traffic at some point. Living in the city does not completely insulate most people from traffic concerns.

This post really makes no sense. Most suburbs don't have all those things as well, and you would have to drive to another suburb to get to them. Such as Ice rinks, I remember one being in Delmont where I grew for a large radius of other suburbs. Airport? One per metro? Major movie screens? Again, drive to only a few larger suburbs for.

When I lived in the East End everything was in arms reach that you mentioned, except the absurd things like airports and lakes that me and every other suburbanite had to drive too. Even if something wasn't in my immediate neighborhood I wouldn't have to travel far to another neighborhood to obtain. And personally, I liked my small neighborhood theaters I could walk too, but I always had the Waterfront a few miles south of me. My wife likes those giant obnoxious theaters.

This argument is just getting crazy.

[Evergrey]

That is a ridiculous response. I certainly do not live in a "bubble". However, a weekend trip to a lake or a trout stream is not going to subject a motorist to significant traffic unless there is road work, accident or some special event like a festival or sporting event along your route. This discussion has truly jumped the shark.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by pman

we're not talking about most US Cities but PA cities which are an entirely different animal than Phoenix of Houston (for better and for worse). If you live in Philadelphia and walk to work or take the subway, what do you care if rush hour traffic is bad? it doesn't take any longer to drive to the wal-mart or target on the waterfront than it does in most suburbs and for most things, you can walk to them. where you live absolutely affects your perception of an area. the same goes for Pittsburgh, outside of rush hour, not having to deal with the squirrell hill tunnel is going to impact the amount of traffic you experience getting from lawrenceville to the strip is far easier than cranberry to the strip. there's a target just up the road in east liberty.

You fail to realize that people sometimes go from the city to the suburbs. For instance, lets say I meet a friend in Cranberry and drive from the city vs. driving from Ross township. Sometimes people also go from one area of the city to another, for instance lets say I live in Shadyside and want to go to dinner at a restaurant on Mt. Washington. It is not very easy to do this with public transportation and if you are making the drive during rush hour or dinnertime you may encounter traffic. Philadelphia has much better public transportation that Pittsburgh (I have lived in both places), but there are still times where most people need to get into the car and battle the traffic. I am actually a big fan of urban living and I have always lived within the city center or immediately outside in every area that I have lived. However, I am also realistic and realize that despite living in a walkable area I may need to get in the car and deal with traffic sometimes, especially when living in a bigger city. I stand by my earlier statement and Pittsburgh/Philly are no exception, most U.S. cities are relatively car dependent. There are some exceptions to this rule and Philly is less car dependent than Pittsburgh, but it is not Paris, Toronto, Montreal, or Berlin.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by SPSGuy

This post really makes no sense. Most suburbs don't have all those things as well, and you would have to drive to another suburb to get to them. Such as Ice rinks, I remember one being in Delmont where I grew for a large radius of other suburbs. Airport? One per metro? Major movie screens? Again, drive to only a few larger suburbs for.

When I lived in the East End everything was in arms reach that you mentioned, except the absurd things like airports and lakes that me and every other suburbanite had to drive too. Even if something wasn't in my immediate neighborhood I wouldn't have to travel far to another neighborhood to obtain. And personally, I liked my small neighborhood theaters I could walk too, but I always had the Waterfront a few miles south of me. My wife likes those giant obnoxious theaters.

This argument is just getting crazy.

Actually it makes complete sense if you live life and travel even within your own metro. The point is simple your interests are not the same as mine and vice versa. Most people cannot do everything they need/want to do within a small area. The big movie theater is a great example of this, if I want to see a movie that is not at the small, one or two screen neighborhood theater I need to go the big suburban theater. As another example, if I enjoy trout fishing it may be easier to drive to the stream from the suburbs vs. the city. The argument that Evergrey brought up was that he/she did not have to ever deal with traffic because they live in the city. I disagree with this statement and refuse to change my life to avoid traffic. Several metros also have more than one airport by the way and I often found myself traveling to Cleveland from Pittsburgh when I lived there to get better deals on certain flights. This is another issue entirely, but I also had to deal with traffic driving from the Burgh to Cleveland.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

That is a ridiculous response. I certainly do not live in a "bubble". However, a weekend trip to a lake or a trout stream is not going to subject a motorist to significant traffic unless there is road work, accident or some special event like a festival or sporting event along your route. This discussion has truly jumped the shark.

What if I have a Wednesday off and I want to fish during the week? Your stance on this issue is ridiculous and the notion that living in the city insulates you from all traffic is asinine.

[pman]

Originally Posted by track2514

Actually it makes complete sense if you live life and travel even within your own metro. The point is simple your interests are not the same as mine and vice versa. Most people cannot do everything they need/want to do within a small area. The big movie theater is a great example of this, if I want to see a movie that is not at the small, one or two screen neighborhood theater I need to go the big suburban theater. As another example, if I enjoy trout fishing it may be easier to drive to the stream from the suburbs vs. the city. The argument that Evergrey brought up was that he/she did not have to ever deal with traffic because they live in the city. I disagree with this statement and refuse to change my life to avoid traffic. Several metros also have more than one airport by the way and I often found myself traveling to Cleveland from Pittsburgh when I lived there to get better deals on certain flights. This is another issue entirely, but I also had to deal with traffic driving from the Burgh to Cleveland.

what it boils down to is you have an extreme aversion to traffic of any kind. life anywhere requires compromises. I could care less about wasting money at some 20 screen multiplex but if I wanted to, I wouldn't have to fight traffic to do so. sure, sometimes you might have to fight traffic but that's hardly planning your life around it. what you really mean to say is you don't EVER want to change anything you do because of traffic which is different than not having to plan your life around traffic. in small places you often have to drive further and more often. you may not plan your life around traffic anymore but you obviously plan your life around your car. if you live in a big city, you are often (though not always) freed from planning your life around driving. that is what you are failing to realize

[trackstar13]

Hey I kind of like the moniker "Extreme Traffic Hater," so I can't argue with you about that one.

[Toure]

THEY DONT COMPARE... Philadelphia is on a whole different level...