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Interestingly enough I ran numbers a few years ago, and the North Hills (Northern Allegheny/Southern Butler County) average income is now near equal to the Traditional Main Line.
Sewickley Heights - $228,958 (Wealthiest Municipality in Pennsylvania)
Sewickley Hills - $113,500
Franklin Park - $115,278
Ohio Township - $102,212
Bell Acres - $115,479
Cranberry - $101,963
Seven Fields - $102,470
Adams Township - $105,977
Marshall Township - $119,776
Bradford Woods - $102,308
Pine Township - $143,773
Richland Township - $101,061
It's quite amazing at the growth (Population wise, and wealth as well) in the past 15 years. These 12 municipalities are the size of Delaware County and the entire area has incomes of $100,000+.
If Treesdale was a separate CPD, like Villanova or Berwyn, I would estimate the median income of nearly $300,000.
100% Pittsburgh has wealthy areas. The North Hills are not even close to the Main Line in wealth however. Where did you get those median household incomes from? I can't find over $200,000 for Sewickley anywhere. Sewickley Heights has a population of like 800 people. ZIP Codes aren't an exact measurement for wealth, but it's a better measure then cherry picking small measurements and towns.
For instance, Villanova's zip code covers Villanova, Villanova University, and smaller towns like Ithan, Willowburn, and Wyola which drive down the MHI. All of those students in the area and the MHI is still $188K.
Rittenhouse Square's ZIP Code encompasses Rittenhouse Square, Fitler Square, and Logan Square neighborhoods. The total population is probably over 50,000.... when ZIPs in the suburbs are covering populations around 2,000 to 10,000 at most. On top of that, the large student population in Rittenhouse due to it's proximity to University City. Yet, the ZIP Codes MHI is only around $70,000. Do you really think Rittenhouse Square with it's $1800 average monthly rent, and Multi-million dollar condos and townhomes only has an MHI of $70,000? Remove the students and the MHI would easily be over $200,000. Heck, my MHI (me and my fiance) is $260,000... and we live next to 3 Wharton grad students with $0 in income. However, you can bet their parents are extremely wealthy as one drives a freaking Bentley.
Again, ZIPs aren't perfect, but cherry picking to specific towns isn't perfect either, especially with populations under 1,000.
For instance, if you want to cherry pick stats:
"The eastern section of Villanova was ranked the 39th wealthiest neighborhood in America with a median household income of $366,904"
Keep in mind the Main Line is not the only wealthy region in the Philadelphia area. You have dozens of very high income zipcodes in Delaware, Chester, Bucks, and Montgomery Counties outside of the Main Line. And that doesn't include Northern DE and SJ zipcodes.
And also keep in mind that a lot of those posted municipalities near Pittsburgh have under 1,000 residents, Lower Merion as a whole is over 60,000 people and still maintains very high income numbers. Gladwyne is around 5000 residents I believe.
There are definitely very wealthy areas around Pittsburgh, but in the larger picture the Philadelphia suburbs are more uniformly wealthy with larger pockets of ultra affluence. There's a reason why dozens of extremely high end stores keep opening in King of Prussia, because the money is there.
Exactly... and those wealthy stores around just in King of Prussia either. There are high end shops opening in Ardmore, Wayne, etc.
Keep in mind the losses in Mining and Logging and Construction ALL incrude the Gas Industry leaving Pennsylvania. Those are metro number than are including far flung areas losing jobs, not the core.
Yes for sure, but my point still stands is that it's going to be hard for Pittsburgh to move forward with the rest of it's region in decline. Allegheny County can't pull the entire weight of the region on it's own.
In the Philadelphia area, practically every county (minus a few in South Jersey) are gaining in population. Philadelphia itself is adding 1/3 of the entire Philadelphia regions jobs.
If you want to look at solely sectors that tend to have upper-middle to high wage jobs, it would look like this:
Pittsburgh Region
Professional and Business Services: +5,200
Educational and Health Services: +2,300
Financial Activities: -600
Information: -600
Total: 6,300
Philadelphia Region
Professional and Business Services: +11,800
Education and Health Services: +11,700
Financial Activities: +2,300
Information: -1,100
Total: 24,700
Philadelphia City
Education and Health Services: +6,500
Professional and Business Services: +1,400
Financial Activities: +400
Information: -600
Total: 7,700
^^The city of Philadelphia added more high wage jobs on it's own than the entire Pittsburgh Region, and added 1/3 of the Philadelphia Regions high wage jobs.
100% Pittsburgh has wealthy areas. The North Hills are not even close to the Main Line in wealth however. Where did you get those median household incomes from? I can't find over $200,000 for Sewickley anywhere. Sewickley Heights has a population of like 800 people. ZIP Codes aren't an exact measurement for wealth, but it's a better measure then cherry picking small measurements and towns.
For instance, Villanova's zip code covers Villanova, Villanova University, and smaller towns like Ithan, Willowburn, and Wyola which drive down the MHI. All of those students in the area and the MHI is still $188K.
Rittenhouse Square's ZIP Code encompasses Rittenhouse Square, Fitler Square, and Logan Square neighborhoods. The total population is probably over 50,000.... when ZIPs in the suburbs are covering populations around 2,000 to 10,000 at most. On top of that, the large student population in Rittenhouse due to it's proximity to University City. Yet, the ZIP Codes MHI is only around $70,000. Do you really think Rittenhouse Square with it's $1800 average monthly rent, and Multi-million dollar condos and townhomes only has an MHI of $70,000? Remove the students and the MHI would easily be over $200,000. Heck, my MHI (me and my fiance) is $260,000... and we live next to 3 Wharton grad students with $0 in income. However, you can bet their parents are extremely wealthy as one drives a freaking Bentley.
Again, ZIPs aren't perfect, but cherry picking to specific towns isn't perfect either, especially with populations under 1,000.
For instance, if you want to cherry pick stats:
"The eastern section of Villanova was ranked the 39th wealthiest neighborhood in America with a median household income of $366,904"
It is 100% in the same league of wealth as the Main Line; it maybe a few thousand dollars lower but definitely the same tier. The North Hills continues to drastically increase in wealth because it's new wealth versus established wealth (Mainline, Fox Chapel etc). All of the townships listed (besides Marshall) have at least 10,000 people (now many are probably closer to 20,000) and Cranberry Township will soon be as large (if not larger) than Lower Merion.
Keep in mind the Main Line is not the only wealthy region in the Philadelphia area. You have dozens of very high income zipcodes in Delaware, Chester, Bucks, and Montgomery Counties outside of the Main Line. And that doesn't include Northern DE and SJ zipcodes.
And also keep in mind that a lot of those posted municipalities near Pittsburgh have under 1,000 residents, Lower Merion as a whole is over 60,000 people and still maintains very high income numbers. Gladwyne is around 5000 residents I believe.
There are definitely very wealthy areas around Pittsburgh, but in the larger picture the Philadelphia suburbs are more uniformly wealthy with larger pockets of ultra affluence. There's a reason why dozens of extremely high end stores keep opening in King of Prussia, because the money is there.
Also keep in mind the North Hills are not the only wealthy region in Pittsburgh. I was doing a case by case analysis. I would tend to agree Philadelphia has a higher percentage of higher income suburban areas, but not a huge percentage more.
As I said to ROW, the MAJORITY of the municipalities I referenced have a minimum of 10,000 people and are growing rapidly yo the point that they may have near 20,000 now. Cranberry Township is projected to have 50,000 in 13 years.
I would actually lean towards Philadelphia having more uniformed wealthy suburbs and Pittsburgh having more isolated pockets of extreme wealth. In the west, Nevillewood is a small area surrounded by more middle class, in the south Peters Township and Upper saint clair, and east- Murrysville.
Also keep in mind the North Hills are not the only wealthy region in Pittsburgh. I was doing a case by case analysis. I would tend to agree Philadelphia has a higher percentage of higher income suburban areas, but not a huge percentage more.
As I said to ROW, the MAJORITY of the municipalities I referenced have a minimum of 10,000 people and are growing rapidly yo the point that they may have near 20,000 now. Cranberry Township is projected to have 50,000 in 13 years.
I would actually lean towards Philadelphia having more uniformed wealthy suburbs and Pittsburgh having more isolated pockets of extreme wealth. In the west, Nevillewood is a small area surrounded by more middle class, in the south Peters Township and Upper saint clair, and east- Murrysville.
Agreed, the majority of Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Chester Counties are town after town of middle/upper class with many upper class enclaves mixed in. There are only a few very isolated high crime/poverty areas (Chester being the obvious one).
It is 100% as wealthy as the Main Line; it continues to drastically increase in wealth because it's new wealth versus established wealth (Mainline, Fox Chapel etc). All of the townships listed (besides Marshall) have at least 10,000 people (now many are probably closer to 20,000) and Cranberry Township will soon be as large (if not larger) than Lower Merion.
Treesdale is not a neighborhood fyi. It has nearly 3,000 residents.
Weird that Sewickley Heights shows up, but places like Gladwyne and Villanova do not.
I don't see Cranberry township being larger than Lower Merion anytime soon. If current growth rates stayed the same, it would take 30 years for Cranberry to catch Lower Merion in population.
Cranberry Township's population in 2010 was 28,098. The population in 2015 was 29,457. That's 1,359 people on 5 years. Cranberry Townships overall MHI is $101,963.
Lower Merion Township (which by the way includes most of the Main Line including Bala Cynwyd, Ardmore, Narberth, Gladwyne, Wynnewood, Merion Station, and half of Villanova) had a population of 57,825 in 2010. It's population in 2015 was 58,188. That's only an increase of 363 in 5 years, however, this is because of little new construction in the area, and it being mostly built out. There is a lot of new/denser development coming to Bala Cynwyd and Ardmore however, so this could significantly increase the population in the next few years. The MHI in this entire area by the way, is $118,704.
Agreed, the majority of Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Chester Counties are town after town of middle/upper class with many upper class enclaves mixed in. There are only a few very isolated high crime/poverty areas (Chester being the obvious one).
Plus wealthy areas in New Castle County Delaware Northwest of Wilmington and Northeast of Newark. Plus the wealthy areas in Camden County, NJ around Haddonfiled, Cherry Hill and Moorestown and Burlington County, NJ around Bordentown.
Weird that Sewickley Heights shows up, but places like Gladwyne and Villanova do not.
I don't see Cranberry township being larger than Lower Merion anytime soon. If current growth rates stayed the same, it would take 30 years for Cranberry to catch Lower Merion in population.
Cranberry Township's population in 2010 was 28,098. The population in 2015 was 29,457. That's 1,359 people on 5 years. Cranberry Townships overall MHI is $101,963.
Lower Merion Township (which by the way includes most of the Main Line including Bala Cynwyd, Ardmore, Narberth, Gladwyne, Wynnewood, Merion Station, and half of Villanova) had a population of 57,825 in 2010. It's population in 2015 was 58,188. That's only an increase of 363 in 5 years, however, this is because of little new construction in the area, and it being mostly built out. There is a lot of new/denser development coming to Bala Cynwyd and Ardmore however, so this could significantly increase the population in the next few years. The MHI in this entire area by the way, is $118,704.
Remember than Township estimates are directly correlated to the county's growth rate and not a direct estimation. I assume you've never been to Cranberry? It is absolutely bursting with growth. Lower Merion has been losing population since 1970. It's undoubtedly due to declining household size and not lack of desirability lol.
Cranberrys MHI in 2000 was ~66,000. It's now ~102,000. Lower Merions MHI in 2000 was ~107,000 it's now ~119,000. Cranberry will catch it, it's only a matter of time. It's not a bad thing, Lower Merion is just matured while Cranberry is booming.
Remember than Township estimates are directly correlated to the county's growth rate and not a direct estimation. I assume you've never been to Cranberry? It is absolutely bursting with growth. Lower Merion has been losing population since 1970. It's undoubtedly due to declining household size and not lack of desirability lol.
Cranberrys MHI in 2000 was ~66,000. It's now ~102,000. Lower Merions MHI in 2000 was ~107,000 it's now ~119,000. Cranberry will catch it, it's only a matter of time. It's not a bad thing, Lower Merion is just matured while Cranberry is booming.
I have never been to Cranberry Township. Looking around on Google Maps is the best I get to familiarty with it It looks somewhat similar to a Valley Forge type area. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think Lower Merion declined between 1970 and 2015 due to new construction happening in areas surrounding the Main Line and people moved out to newer houses. It definitely also likely has to do with the declining household size as well.
There has been a slight uptick in population from 2010 to 2015 however, and there are some nice new developments and finally new construction happening in some areas which I would assume would bring an uptick in population.
Last edited by RightonWalnut; 02-03-2017 at 12:28 PM..
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It looks somewhat similar to a Valley Forge type area. Correct me if I'm wrong.
