Impact on businesses in PA due to the virus panic (Penn: budget, small businesses)

[jdhpa]

Originally Posted by Duderino

I'd love to see your source on your claim about Cuomo. Sounds like a suspect interpretation of facts there.

Nevertheless, you've misunderstood my statement. It has nothing to do with absolving responsibility; it has everything to do with the lack of coordinated national effort, which is completely ridiculous and forced governors into making difficult and sometimes drastic decisions.

This is a national security crisis, and the patchwork response by governors was the only alternative in the absence of coordinated leadership.

The link is below. If you scroll down you'll see where they have an image of the advisory from the NY Department of Health:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/coro...-deroy-murdock

"No resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the NH solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."

[Archer705]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Oh please. Let's not go down the road of competent leadership. Again, we're the only Western nation without a coordinated public health response at the national level, and it's a failure for which we're all to blame. It's truly a disgrace. Keep in mind that we're approaching 400K excess deaths from the pandemic in the US alone, the vast majority of which could have been prevented with simple changes in behavior:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...h-toll-us.html


Without the lockdowns, this would have been far worse.

And yes, ALL states have felt a significant economic impact from the pandemic whether you'd care to admit it or not. Look at the latest jobs numbers; no state made it out unscathed--not by a longshot:

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm

Really? Because last I checked, states with lockdowns and mask mandates have higher case counts than states without them per capita.


Compare PA to MO.
Compare PA to NE.
Compare PA to SC.
Compare PA to ID.
Compare PA to OK.
Compare PA to MS.
Compare PA to AZ.

All of which are doing much better both economically and health wise. Also, isn't it funny that less people died in 2020 than 2019? Almost makes you wonder.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Archer705

Really? Because last I checked, states with lockdowns and mask mandates have higher case counts than states without them.
...

All of which are doing much better both economically and health wise. Also, isn't it funny that less people died in 2020 than 2019? Almost makes you wonder.

None of what you're saying is factual. All of the states to which you're comparing have significant job losses and very high rates of transmission. I'm really not sure what your point is:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html

And I literally just posted an article about how the US has seen nearly 400K more deaths in 2020 compared to 2019. It's lunacy to suggest otherwise. Here's some food for thought: 2020 will very likely be the first time in history that the US as a whole will lose population due to excess deaths.

But no, let's keep comparing this to an "average flu season."

[Archer705]

Originally Posted by Duderino

None of what you're saying is factual. All of the states to which you're comparing have significant job losses and very high rates of transmission. I'm really not sure what your point is:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html

And I literally just posted an article about how the US has seen nearly 400K more deaths in 2020 compared to 2019. It's lunacy to suggest otherwise. Here's some food for thought: 2020 will very likely be the first time in history that the US as a whole will lose population due to excess deaths.

But no, let's keep comparing this to an "average flu season."

Even if the U.S. has seen 400k more deaths than 2020, there aren't 400,000 covid deaths. Nonetheless, you're telling me that a nation that gains 1.7 million a year on average is somehow going to have a decline due to 400,000 deaths ? Sorry but that food for thought you offered is invalid and not backed by any data. For all I know, that could be resulted in an increase from the nations actual highest causes of death, such as smoking and heart disease - which are the real pandemics.

I don't need an article to prove my point, just do simple math on your own.

For example, let's compare PA to MO covid deaths per capita and unemployment.

Missouri has 6.14 Million people
Pennsylvania has 12.80 Million people

PA has very unconstitutional restrictions, Missouri does not.

Pennsylvania has 16,324 deaths "related to COVID-19".
Missouri has 5,927 deaths "related to COVID-19".

16,324 / 12,800,000 = 0.0012753125 x 100,000 = 127.531 deaths per 100,000 Pennsylvanians
5,927 / 6,140,000 = 0.00096530944 x 100,000 = 96.5309 deaths per 100,000 Missourians

Now let's compare unemployment numbers between Pennsylvania and Missouri.
In February, PA unemployment rate was 4.7%. Current PA's unemployment rate is 6.6%
In February, MO unemployment rate was 3.7%. Currently MO's unemployment rate is 4.4%

Pennsylvania has higher deaths per capita, significantly greater job loss, and currently also has been gaining more cases per capita than Missouri, a state that has no mask mandate or ridiculous curfew and unconstitutional laws.


But if you need an article, here is one
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-cor...rictions/73818


Scroll down and see the obvious effect at how state restrictions heavily impact unemployment numbers.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

I just found this article while researching the impact on businesses in your state due to the virus mess. Unbelievable what has happened. The state will be in economic ruins for many years, possibly a decade.

https://www.pottsmerc.com/news/local...13c8ee24d.html

Now replace the word "state" for "nation", and you will be on the money.

[Flyers Girl]

Here's a good article from Philly Patch: https://patch.com/pennsylvania/phila...id-coronavirus

[Archer705]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

Now replace the word "state" for "nation", and you will be on the money.

Really? Because a lot of states have already made a near complete recovery to include SD, NE, and MS to name a few. Take a look at the economic impact state-by-state and you'd find that nearly half of the nation is doing almost as good as prior. The other half has issues related to state government, whether democrat or republican is irrelevant to how states reacted to COVID-19 and its impact on their individual economy, as both parties had governmental control that did an absolutely awful job. The most awful ones of course being PA, CA, and NY, unfortunately.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Archer705

Even if the U.S. has seen 400k more deaths than 2020, there aren't 400,000 covid deaths. Nonetheless, you're telling me that a nation that gains 1.7 million a year on average is somehow going to have a decline due to 400,000 deaths ? Sorry but that food for thought you offered is invalid and not backed by any data. For all I know, that could be resulted in an increase from the nations actual highest causes of death, such as smoking and heart disease - which are the real pandemics.

I don't need an article to prove my point, just do simple math on your own.

For example, let's compare PA to MO covid deaths per capita and unemployment.

Missouri has 6.14 Million people
Pennsylvania has 12.80 Million people

PA has very unconstitutional restrictions, Missouri does not.

Pennsylvania has 16,324 deaths "related to COVID-19".
Missouri has 5,927 deaths "related to COVID-19".

16,324 / 12,800,000 = 0.0012753125 x 100,000 = 127.531 deaths per 100,000 Pennsylvanians
5,927 / 6,140,000 = 0.00096530944 x 100,000 = 96.5309 deaths per 100,000 Missourians

Now let's compare unemployment numbers between Pennsylvania and Missouri.
In February, PA unemployment rate was 4.7%. Current PA's unemployment rate is 6.6%
In February, MO unemployment rate was 3.7%. Currently MO's unemployment rate is 4.4%

Pennsylvania has higher deaths per capita, significantly greater job loss, and currently also has been gaining more cases per capita than Missouri, a state that has no mask mandate or ridiculous curfew and unconstitutional laws.


But if you need an article, here is one
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-cor...rictions/73818


Scroll down and see the obvious effect at how state restrictions heavily impact unemployment numbers.

The scatterplot charts of restrictions vs. COVID death rates directly contradict what you wrote above.

I tend to give WalletHub studies the brush-off ever since I was pitched one on the "best cities for mass transit" where the analysts made a grave error of dividing systemwide ridership for a metropolitan agency by core city population, but since you saw fit to cite it as a backup for your argument:

Go back and look at the scatterplot for restrictions vs. COVID death rate rankings.

All but seven of the states that placed in the bottom half for severity of restrictions also placed in the bottom half for COVID death rates. Missouri is also in that top left quadrant. The five exceptions are Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Maryland, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. The other 18, Missouri included, are have COVID death rates that place them in the bottom half (lower ranking = higher death rate).

Conversely, all but seven of the states in the top half for severity of restrictions placed in the top half for COVID death rates. Pennsylvania is in that bottom right quadrant; the seven outliers are California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia.

Unfortunately, they don't tell you what the COVID death rankings are based on (total numbers or per capita?) or what numbers they relied on.

So this seems like another WalletHub study of questionable accuracy, and I'd probably not have wasted electrons on it had you not cited it as backing up your argument.

[Archer705]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

The scatterplot charts of restrictions vs. COVID death rates directly contradict what you wrote above.

I tend to give WalletHub studies the brush-off ever since I was pitched one on the "best cities for mass transit" where the analysts made a grave error of dividing systemwide ridership for a metropolitan agency by core city population, but since you saw fit to cite it as a backup for your argument:

Go back and look at the scatterplot for restrictions vs. COVID death rate rankings.

All but seven of the states that placed in the bottom half for severity of restrictions also placed in the bottom half for COVID death rates. Missouri is also in that top left quadrant. The five exceptions are Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Maryland, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. The other 18, Missouri included, are have COVID death rates that place them in the bottom half (lower ranking = higher death rate).

Conversely, all but seven of the states in the top half for severity of restrictions placed in the top half for COVID death rates. Pennsylvania is in that bottom right quadrant; the seven outliers are California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia.

Unfortunately, they don't tell you what the COVID death rankings are based on (total numbers or per capita?) or what numbers they relied on.

So this seems like another WalletHub study of questionable accuracy, and I'd probably not have wasted electrons on it had you not cited it as backing up your argument.

Exactly, I Would dispute that portion of the WalletHub Study as inaccurate, which is exactly why I said to scroll down to see the economic impact, which is better explained as to why it is in fact accurate. I saw that, and knew it was inaccurate based on my own study, which is factually sourced. As far as the economic impact, it would be impossible for them to mess that up in regards to unemployment rankings. But we both know that Missouri has far less deaths total and less deaths per capita than PA.

[blazerj]

Originally Posted by jdhpa

Governors aren't elected to be the point person to ask the Federal Government for help. They're elected to lead. Any governor that doesn't believe they 100% own how the state they run responded to covid (or any other problem) has loudly announced they should never hold public office.

Same thing for the POTUS, but 100X more.

Maybe, if we didn't have the worst POTUS in history, we would have had a better response to the pandemic? He's even screwing up the vaccine rollout.