"If Fetterman wins, the election was rigged. If Oz wins, it was a free and fair election." Thoughts? (Newtown: how much, college)

[Muinteoir]

Do you agree with this formulation? It reads in full: "In regards to the 2022 senate election in Pennsylvania, if Fetterman wins, the election was either rigged or stolen. If Oz wins, the election was free and fair, and the results represent the will of the people."

Do you agree with the above quoted statement? Please follow up with why or why not. I especially want to hear from people who agree with it, and can provide evidence to support that the only way Fetterman can win is through cheating.

[BPP1999]

Funny you post this. The same applies to the Mastriano/Shapiro race. If Mastriano wins, he won. If Shapiro wins, there was cheating.

[jtab4994]

Russian interference either way.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Funny you post this. The same applies to the Mastriano/Shapiro race. If Mastriano wins, he won. If Shapiro wins, there was cheating.

Qanon quality logic FTW.

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Russian interference either way.

Elaborate on your point a bit. Russians did interfere in the 2016 election. That is a fact. Even with that fact, no one raided the capitol or said that DT shouldn't be pres for the next four years. What is not a fact is widespread and significant voter fraud in the 2020 election in states like Pennsylvania.

[NewtownBucks]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Funny you post this. The same applies to the Mastriano/Shapiro race. If Mastriano wins, he won. If Shapiro wins, there was cheating.

I think the margin in the Shapiro race is going to be large enough that there's going to be no way to claim fraud decided it. Mastriano is not just bad, he's dangerous for both the state and the country, and I think a lot of people are coming to that conclusion as the election approaches.

[NewtownBucks]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

Qanon quality logic FTW.

Elaborate on your point a bit. Russians did interfere in the 2016 election. That is a fact. Even with that fact, no one raided the capitol or said that DT shouldn't be pres for the next four years. What is not a fact is widespread and significant voter fraud in the 2020 election in states like Pennsylvania.

"Interference" is a subjective term here. The Russian intelligence services clearly did engage in a very sophisticated (and mostly social media driven) propaganda campaign to divide Americans and prop up Trump. How much influence that actually had is unknown. They didn't "interfere" in the sense of hacking voting machine or manipulating actual vote totals or anything like that that would be grounds to invalidate the results.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by NewtownBucks

"Interference" is a subjective term here. The Russian intelligence services clearly did engage in a very sophisticated (and mostly social media driven) propaganda campaign to divide Americans and prop up Trump. How much influence that actually had is unknown. They didn't "interfere" in the sense of hacking voting machine or manipulating actual vote totals or anything like that that would be grounds to invalidate the results.

All true. But I still thinks it counts as interfering through unlawful intel / tech activity.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

Elaborate on your point a bit. Russians did interfere in the 2016 election. That is a fact. Even with that fact, no one raided the capitol or said that DT shouldn't be pres for the next four years. What is not a fact is widespread and significant voter fraud in the 2020 election in states like Pennsylvania.

Oh please. Every swinging -- everyone with a microphone in NYC/DC or who buys bits & bytes by the barrel said DJT "shouldn't be President" for a minute, let alone four years. There were riots at the inauguration, boycotts by sitting Congressmen, official objections to the Electoral Vote certification, efforts to get Electoral College members to ignore the voters of their states, two impeachments and a Special Prosecutor that dragged on for years. And don't forget the Million ***** (Hat) March.

That's all from me. Not going down another rabbit hole today.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Oh please. Every swinging -- everyone with a microphone in NYC/DC or who buys bits & bytes by the barrel said DJT "shouldn't be President" for a minute, let alone four years. There were riots at the inauguration, boycotts by sitting Congressmen, official objections to the Electoral Vote certification, efforts to get Electoral College members to ignore the voters of their states, two impeachments and a Special Prosecutor that dragged on for years. And don't forget the Million ***** (Hat) March.

That's all from me. Not going down another rabbit hole today.

Wait, what? What's that got to do with the statement: "In regards to the 2022 senate election in Pennsylvania, if Fetterman wins, the election was either rigged or stolen. If Oz wins, the election was free and fair, and the results represent the will of the people."

FTR, Hillary conceded. There were no calls for Joe Biden (VP at the time, ofc) to refuse to partake in certifying the election. People were mad about Russia's activity and the (then "possible) cooperation of the Trump campaign, sure. But nobody was calling to overthrow our representative democracy. As toobusytoday reminds us, political topics on this sub-forum are supposed to more PA specific, so it's a good idea for you to leave it there.

I am surprised to see the Pennsylvanian election deniers so quiet. Perhaps some of them have come around?

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Oh please. Every swinging -- everyone with a microphone in NYC/DC or who buys bits & bytes by the barrel said DJT "shouldn't be President" for a minute, let alone four years. There were riots at the inauguration, boycotts by sitting Congressmen, official objections to the Electoral Vote certification, efforts to get Electoral College members to ignore the voters of their states, two impeachments and a Special Prosecutor that dragged on for years. And don't forget the Million ***** (Hat) March.

That's all from me. Not going down another rabbit hole today.

The vast majority of people who expressed that Trump “shouldn’t be president” were speaking from the standpoint that the fact our country elected him to the presidency was shameful and a disgrace, especially since he lost the popular vote by a significant margin but managed to win because the electoral college desk is stacked heavily in favor of red states. I don’t recall the narrative ever centering around the notion that he stole the election by way of mass voter fraud.

I will acknowledge that a significant minority of anti-Trumpers wanted to make an end-run around the electoral college to prevent him from taking office. However, as much as I loathed Trump ascending to the presidency (and the myriad problems with the electoral college which helped get him there), I was not one of them because that would have set a far, far, far worse precedent. Thankfully, that movement ended up gaining very little traction. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said of the 2020 election fraud narrative.