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Old 10-20-2022, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,080 posts, read 7,451,105 times
Reputation: 16351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
That doesn't sound respectful, but cute attempt at a quip. Believe it or not, our opinions change over time as we process new information and new problems present themselves. Many people form new opinions over the course of their lifetime, and it is totally appropriate to have new opinions for new information. I certainly hope you have changed some of your opinions since you were 22, which was my age during the 2012 presidential election.
Recency Syndrome/Bias/Effect is something that affects me and everyone else, not just you. I don't think you should be offended by it.
https://www.verywellmind.com/the-rec...studied%20last.

I can tell you that when I was 20, I didn't think I was old enough to vote for Ronald Reagan, so I voted for John Anderson instead. And yes, I was a registered Democrat and I didn't change that until I moved in 1986. In 1985 I voted Libertarian for NJ governor because the incumbent was heading for a slam-dunk landslide. Also this year in the Republican gubernatorial primary I voted for a local candidate from Monroe County that you probably never heard of and who only got 1.2% of the overall vote. I have also done my best to talk people out of protest votes when I knew the results were going to be close. So yeah, I get the impulse for a Quixotic or protest vote.

But I really think I have a legitimate concern with how bogus claims of "fraud" or "voter suppression" might be used to stir up people who don't fully understand how rank choice voting really works.
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Old 10-20-2022, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,187 posts, read 9,085,132 times
Reputation: 10536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Well, I don't agree with your reasons. Just because you didn't like the nominees in a couple of recent elections, and because you think it would be cool to give third and fourth party candidates a chance, aren't good enough reasons in my opinion.

And BTW rank choice voting in Alaska may yet yield an Orange-backed Senator while sending an anti-Orange incumbent Senator packing.

The Alaska at-large House seat is up for grabs between a Democrat and two Republicans. By splitting the Republican vote in a Republican state, that's one seat the Democrats may "steal" (using the baseball sense -- don't freak out). Before you fall off your chair laughing, consider that rank choice voting could set up the same scenario in majority-Blue states and give the Red people a chance at stealing seats. All of this with the winner receiving far less than 50% of the vote.

Respectfully, I think you're suffering from Recency Syndrome, trying to fix a problem you discovered in elections in 2016 and 2020, and when you never thought it was a problem in all the elections before that.
I attended college in a city that elects its City Council via ranked-choice voting and has done so for decades. The practice is nothing new: Cambridge, Mass., has used the "single transferrable vote" to elect its nine-member city council for quite some time, and while it doesn't produce a final tally of winners on Election Night, it works well.

Generally, those who wish to break up the political duopoly that our current electoral system produces have pushed for all kinds of electoral reform. Anyone who supports minor parties tends to like STV (ranked-choice) voting.
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Old 10-21-2022, 06:53 AM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,538,351 times
Reputation: 8103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
This is Mastriano's big platform issue and it has wide appeal. There are several laws and programs that drive up school taxes. The big one is collective bargaining where teacher salaries are based on longevity not on how effective they are and bad teachers are rewarded with undeserved salary increases. Is used to be a long time ago that if a teacher wanted a salary increase, she had to make her case with the school superintendent.

Require a referendum on new building proposals. A thread that I posted previously dealt with this topic. No candidate for governor in this cycle has promised a local referendum on big new school spending.

Get rid of Act 88 of 1992 which guarantees that teachers always get what they demand.

Eliminate Act 48 of 1999. This is Tom Ridge's teacher recertification scheme. A teacher must be recertified every 5 years by submitting evidence of completion of so many course credits or attending education workshops. There is no evidence that this makes for better teachers. It takes away from teachers' free time and then they "step up" on the salary scale costing schools more money.
Steering this conversation back to the OP^
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Old 10-23-2022, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,873 posts, read 4,551,006 times
Reputation: 6733
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Steering this conversation back to the OP^

copy that.


Quote:
Eliminate Act 48 of 1999. This is Tom Ridge's teacher recertification scheme. A teacher must be recertified every 5 years by submitting evidence of completion of so many course credits or attending education workshops. There is no evidence that this makes for better teachers. It takes away from teachers' free time and then they "step up" on the salary scale costing schools more money.
There is no evidence that the bolded and underlined above from the OP is true or ever was true and in fact is demonstrably quite the opposite.


as in any profession that requires a 'license' - be it teacher, professional engineer, IT certifications etc, constant updating is required. No one has ever went to any lengths (i.e. no one outside those with zero qualifications and hence no room to speak outside of a political opinion pieces) to disprove the notion the education works.


MOST teachers opt for the majority of their time from the green italicized and underlined passage above. Just befriend one and ASK them.



And it is true that counselor, admin and principal certs are often sought because teaching, is a dead end 'MOS' to speak. Anyone who is NOT a teacher in your school is your boss and if you want to move up, this is where you go. In PA, since this is a PA thread, the program must be at least partially completed to move up, with preference going to those with the cert. there is no OJT in regular districts and MINIMAL OJT in charter schools (which enjoy some unhealthy loopholes)


Act 48 is built into EVERY PA district calendar. apparently I am the only person with school age kids, let alone kids here.


Since we have determined that zero of the respondents have a teaching license, now or ever in PDE, we are treading in unsafe waters.



IF in fact mastriano wants to zero out property taxes w.r.t school funding - that is a non starter. there is no other vehicle to fund our schools in PA so its never squeaking by the legislature which is in no mood to entertain such foolishness. AND, except for counties around philly and to a much lesser degree allegheny county, property taxes are really not much of a burden here compared to similar locations across the country. At last check, of the part of each districts budget that goes to salary, it is top heavy in admin. This: https://patch.com/pennsylvania/acros...istricts-teach lists the PA districts where the pay is the top, and note that it sez they are the best districts to work in for a teacher as in most $$, not actual scores or results. and as you can see here, the starting salaries are not out of range for a BS/BA degree in non stem areas: https://www.salary.com/research/sala...cher-salary/pa



But its hard to get a read on WHAT Mastriano actually sez without having a friend in the general assembly because every single 'attack ad' posted against him has been heavily edited such that in about every case, the response reported is not the response to the question reported as asked. If you have to go to those lengths to discredit someone, your points are not valid. I am not in favor of cyber or home schooling for most students. #1, the teacher is not a certified professional and in most cases, not even educated. Did this one year using the Calvert Program offered thru the altoona cyber digital program and while the package is well produced, its nearly as expensive as schooling. Fortunately my wife and I, who administered the package, are over educated in todays terms but that does not take from the fact it sucks up 20 hours plus of your time AND you have to have a daycare willing to push their noses to the wheel for the day work - something almost no one has. as a result, we vote yes for every school funding referendum. I dont expect most reading this to understand, it has to be experienced, not read about.


Now as I said many times, it is more important for PA that OZ be a senator, rather than Mastriano be a guvnor. But if this is to be a reason to not vote for Mastriano, its does not rise to the level of being valid.
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Old 10-23-2022, 08:12 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,673,235 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Steering this conversation back to the OP^
The original topic was:

Quote:
If Mastriano wants to zero out school property taxes
and there was virtually no discussion of that subject including from the OP. It is an interesting topic since it puts a burden on people on fixed incomes, but the elimination of school property taxes will have to come primarily from increasing sales and income taxes.
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Old 10-23-2022, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,873 posts, read 4,551,006 times
Reputation: 6733
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
...the elimination of school property taxes will have to come primarily from increasing sales and income taxes.
well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
the legislature.... is in no mood to entertain such foolishness

just ask them
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Old 10-24-2022, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,080 posts, read 7,451,105 times
Reputation: 16351
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
... The practice is nothing new: Cambridge, Mass., has used the "single transferrable vote" to elect its nine-member city council for quite some time, and while it doesn't produce a final tally of winners on Election Night, it works well.
Say, that reminds me: There's a reason Wm. F Buckley said "the Boston phone book" and not the Cambridge phone book in his famous quip about who he'd rather be ruled by.

On the subject of the original post: I think it would be great to zero out school property taxes.
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Old 10-24-2022, 07:33 AM
 
5,303 posts, read 6,187,626 times
Reputation: 5492
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA View Post




...as in any profession that requires a 'license' - be it teacher, professional engineer, IT certifications etc, constant updating is required. No one has ever went (sic) to any lengths (i.e. no one outside those with zero qualifications and hence no room to speak outside of a political opinion pieces) to disprove the notion the education works.

When I went to elementary school in the 1950s, all of my teachers were graduates of 2 year "normal schools." They taught using the methodology of Edward Lee Thorndike. This was the most dynamic and effective teaching methodology for elementary education ever devised. This was replaced starting in the 1960s by "gestalt theories of learning," now called constructivism. Gestalt theories were introduced in the USA by the "Frankfurt School," a Marxist think tank, which Hitler threw out of Germany in 1934 and they all wound up at Columbia University.
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Old 10-24-2022, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,080 posts, read 7,451,105 times
Reputation: 16351
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA View Post
as in any profession that requires a 'license' - be it teacher, professional engineer, IT certifications etc, constant updating is required. No one has ever went to any lengths (i.e. no one outside those with zero qualifications and hence no room to speak outside of a political opinion pieces) to disprove the notion the education works.
Just FYI there is no state-issued license for being an IT professional. A one-term governor of New Jersey flirted with the idea back in the early 90's (the same guy who tried to outlaw sunny-side-up eggs) but it was quickly shot down because nobody could agree on what it meant to "write code" or what the penalty would be for an office worker who created or modified a spreadsheet without a license. Individual companies and government agencies can impose requirements on their workers, but there is no state license.
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Old 10-24-2022, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,873 posts, read 4,551,006 times
Reputation: 6733
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Just FYI there is no state-issued license for being an IT professional. A one-term governor of New Jersey flirted with the idea back in the early 90's (the same guy who tried to outlaw sunny-side-up eggs) but it was quickly shot down because nobody could agree on what it meant to "write code" or what the penalty would be for an office worker who created or modified a spreadsheet without a license. Individual companies and government agencies can impose requirements on their workers, but there is no state license.

well what I wrote was not specific to PA, but rather the industry. At the industrial level - including govt - its a never ending skill enhancement. You may not get fired, but you wont advance. PMP and IT - for non-exhaustive examples - are required certs, but professional engineer would be a license. (and I forgot medical things of which I have none)


the point being...those that govern such thing and set such standards did so because of the value/knowledge add they bring to the table. I was addressing the claim that they did nothing positive.


Come to think of it, not all licenses require education...I still hold a NYS electrician license from the town I once lived in and its pretty much holy grail, I can work anywhere US except NYC (union rules) and CA and as far as I know, have never been asked to retest even tho the NEC changes occasionally. Heck, the jurisdiction I live now (Westmoreland) requires no such document at all - I could wire the house with speaker wire and no one would complain (no, I am not available for hire ever again.)


In the example you mentioned, programming..it would be hard to license that because the most proliferate code is social media and apps and most of that is written by people with little to no formal education, but again at the industrial level - incl govt - we have entry requirements to adopt outside product, the vast majority which fails the requirements
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