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The median for people in their 30s with a degree is in the 50-55K range.
Clearly, the population here is heavily skewed above the median. Given the poll results, the median responder here is about 75% better off than the national median. Also, the national median is declining. Across the country people are getting WORSE off. People here are beating the odds.
It's why I don't listen to the "advice" of people here too much. They don't represent reality very well. What's worse, many seem to be oblivious to how good they have things. It's like someone who won in Vegas telling other gamblers they should just win more.
The people who post to sites like this tend to be more heavily male, white, and more affluent than the general population.
It's why I don't listen to the "advice" of people here too much. They don't represent reality very well. What's worse, many seem to be oblivious to how good they have things. It's like someone who won in Vegas telling other gamblers they should just win more.
The people who post to sites like this tend to be more heavily male, white, and more affluent than the general population.
Fundamentally advice ought to be the same no matter what.
1) live below your means or at least don't live above it.
2) Don't make unnecessary purchases you can't afford.
The median for people in their 30s with a degree is in the 50-55K range.
Clearly, the population here is heavily skewed above the median. Given the poll results, the median responder here is about 75% better off than the national median. Also, the national median is declining. Across the country people are getting WORSE off. People here are beating the odds.
It's why I don't listen to the "advice" of people here too much. They don't represent reality very well. What's worse, many seem to be oblivious to how good they have things. It's like someone who won in Vegas telling other gamblers they should just win more.
The people who post to sites like this tend to be more heavily male, white, and more affluent than the general population.
Seems to me those are the people others SHOULD seek advice from. What they're doing is working. For them at least. Wouldn't you rather take tennis lessons from Venus or Serena than the overweight ladies in their 40s who play in city league (the vast majority of tennis players)? If you needed diet and exercise advice, would you seek out a sedentary person who fits the definition of average? No! You'd ask people who are beating the odds!
Seems to me those are the people others SHOULD seek advice from. What they're doing is working. For them at least. Wouldn't you rather take tennis lessons from Venus or Serena than the overweight ladies in their 40s who play in city league (the vast majority of tennis players)? If you needed diet and exercise advice, would you seek out a sedentary person who fits the definition of average? No! You'd ask people who are beating the odds!
Well it depends.
Most people will never be Venus or Serena.
Maybe that 40 y/o used to play a lot of tennis, but had a family instead.
We should learn from all sources to learn what to do and not to do.
Some people on here probably got their wealth from an inheritance and got lucky and doubled or trippled it during a bull market. On paper they're doing good. But that doesn't mean they really have anything of worth to listen to. (This is just an example).
I think most people on this part of the forum, know the basics, but there are so many factors, including life's curveballs that throw financials out the window. For any real wealth building, like Serena and Venus, you have to be a literal monk and focus your life on that.
At least that's what I think reguard57s point was.
Seems to me those are the people others SHOULD seek advice from. What they're doing is working. For them at least. Wouldn't you rather take tennis lessons from Venus or Serena than the overweight ladies in their 40s who play in city league (the vast majority of tennis players)? If you needed diet and exercise advice, would you seek out a sedentary person who fits the definition of average? No! You'd ask people who are beating the odds!
If I took Tennis lessons from Serena Williams, she'd be so intimidating and at a level so far above me that I'd never go back.
For someone that naturally good at something, it can be hard to teach it. "Serve the ball faster" she'll say, even though I'd never have the innate talent to do it with the precision or power she does.
Soon everything she says will feel like condescension.
When it comes to financial success, there need to be a few factors in your favor. First, you need to be making at least 30,000 net (about 40K gross) to be financially secure. No less than that will do. Any amount less than that means that there is no safety net for things like car repairs, doctor bills, etc... Over that and you can cover necessities and still have some surplus.
Second, and this is crucial - no one should drag you down. I can't tell you how many people I know would be more successful if not for a toxic family member, typically not someone you can easily detach yourself from - a parent, a child, a sibling. Or worse, more than one.
As an example, my dad couldn't handle money. He didn't waste it but never seemed to hold onto it particularly well. Then he got cancer a couple years before medicare kicked in. I was paying a lot of my dad's bills up until a month before he died. I would not have abandoned him and let him lose his house, etc..., but obviously that's where money that should have gone to savings/investments went for years.
Third, you need to have your health. A friend of mine, who was doing just fine, started having problems with numbness and weakness. Turns out he may have ms. He is financially screwed now; although given his decline in walking ability may qualify for disability pretty soon.
So when people say on here say they started out "poor" I want to ask about their family context or other personal entanglements. A lack of serious problems is actually a kind of leg up. Most people could figure things out pretty well if they are only responsible and accountable to themselves and have no particular health or mental health issues like susceptibility to addiction, depression, and on and on.
Others won the home equity lottery. My own home value has increased about 70% in two years due to precisely nothing on my part, other than not burning the place down I suppose. It's all well and good, but of little help to someone who did not have credit or income to buy a house when I did.
I agree with you both that there are many, many, many caveats. But to write off an entire group of people because they are "beating the odds" seems counterproductive to success.
I agree entirely that one should learn from many sources and points-of-view. A quick comparison of this sub-forum and the "work and employment" forum, for example, reveals some of the stark differences between people who "beat the odds" and those who always feel the "odds are stacked against them"
I also think many posts/threads on here significantly down play luck, and some posters act like they've got it all figured out, but still I learn a LOT by filtering out the parts I don't need, and absorbing and applying the advice relevant to me. I honestly believe reading this forum has contributed to our family's financial success. And we still have a lot to learn!
I agree with you both that there are many, many, many caveats. But to write off an entire group of people because they are "beating the odds" seems counterproductive to success.
I agree entirely that one should learn from many sources and points-of-view. A quick comparison of this sub-forum and the "work and employment" forum, for example, reveals some of the stark differences between people who "beat the odds" and those who always feel the "odds are stacked against them"
I also think many posts/threads on here significantly down play luck, and some posters act like they've got it all figured out, but still I learn a LOT by filtering out the parts I don't need, and absorbing and applying the advice relevant to me. I honestly believe reading this forum has contributed to our family's financial success. And we still have a lot to learn!
Agreed. Some people are intimidated by success, and have a hard time distinguishing talent from hard work.
Of course, there are people that are certainly limited by their abilities, and no amount of hard work can overcome that. And blind luck is certainly a factor. But I do think there are the general principles mentioned earlier in this thread that apply to everyone, and those that heed those general principles will have the greatest shot at success, vs those that are too intimidated to try.
I don't remember which study it was, but there was an interesting one that found that pessimists were much more accurate about the world around them, but optimists were more successful. In the study, IIRC, they measured "success" by sales numbers. It makes sense if you think about it, too. The pessimist thinks "I can never be Serena, no point in trying", the optimist looks for ways to get as close to the Serena level as they can.
I agree with you both that there are many, many, many caveats. But to write off an entire group of people because they are "beating the odds" seems counterproductive to success.
I agree entirely that one should learn from many sources and points-of-view. A quick comparison of this sub-forum and the "work and employment" forum, for example, reveals some of the stark differences between people who "beat the odds" and those who always feel the "odds are stacked against them"
I also think many posts/threads on here significantly down play luck, and some posters act like they've got it all figured out, but still I learn a LOT by filtering out the parts I don't need, and absorbing and applying the advice relevant to me. I honestly believe reading this forum has contributed to our family's financial success. And we still have a lot to learn!
I guess I would not "write it off" but take with a grain of salt. Like all those investment commercials... past results do not guarantee future returns. Advice here may not work for the general population.
I say this as someone who took investment advice from someone in this position. It wasn't bad advice per se - but I didn't realize it didn't pertain to me. I didn't realize that I was not in the position this advisor was - that I was much more likely to have need of my cash and that "missing out on returns" or "losing money to inflation" was not important at the time given my situation. In the world of reality I lived in, I should have kept the money in cash to deal with the left-field issues that came my way. The best advice for ME would have been "do not invest," or at most, a short-term CD ladder.
The advisor was giving advice she gave to most people because it was hard for her to imagine a world in which a paycheck isn't steady and relatives' health is not stable. In her world, people had safe jobs, decent emergency funds and families with health insurance. In THAT scenario it's not smart not to invest.
When you make over ~40-45K single or 60-65K couple/small family is the time to start thinking these "wealth building" issues. Below that, stay out of debt, live as reasonably as you can while still living life, keep your money accessible.
What I do see here a loton C-D economics, which I think is completely erroneous, is a lot of blame in iPhones, cable TV, flat panel TVs. Speaking for myself, cable TV saves me money, because $4 a day entertainment costs that keeps me in the house is a lot cheaper than going out. Also a lot of blame on smartphones. For those of us under 40, we probably don't have any other kind of phone and never will. A once in 5-8 year investment in a TV, again, is better entertainment bang for the buck than going out and spending money on overpriced drinks. If it keeps me at home I'm saving money. Ie: one hotel night is an entire month of cable.
Some of this comes from older people that aren't aware of what electronics cost now. Our electronics these days are made in China by slave laborers that try to jump out windows - they are not that expensive anymore. People will see a black person with a smartphone and just *assume* that is evidence of extravagant wasteful spending. I know that I personally cannot distinguish an iPhone 6 from the entry level phones that come with cell plans without actually holding and looking at it.
Last edited by redguard57; 02-08-2016 at 01:01 PM..
Making it as a professional in life is not exactly a gamble. Its a life long dedication to work ethic and some degree of luck.
Also if you look at California, Statistically minorities are richer than the "stereotypical older white man".
Beating the odds is a little too strong a word, because, it makes it sound like a gamble. There are many factors at play. Cultural and social emphasis on educational excellence as seen in south asian immigrant community is a BIG part of it, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee
Seems to me those are the people others SHOULD seek advice from. What they're doing is working. For them at least. Wouldn't you rather take tennis lessons from Venus or Serena than the overweight ladies in their 40s who play in city league (the vast majority of tennis players)? If you needed diet and exercise advice, would you seek out a sedentary person who fits the definition of average? No! You'd ask people who are beating the odds!
Perhaps , it much better to look at them as "Life-hacks", some tips and tricks and some techniques.
Each one of us then can try them out and see if it fits.
At the end of the day, we will make decisions and live with them, what we feel about others on this forum and in life, is pretty secondary. Given that, I personally, always , try and learn from people who are better than me at something. Works out pretty well in most cases. Self improvement by competition.
But, all being said and done, lady luck has got to be on your side. But to treat luck as a lottery ticket is also not fair, luck favors certain kinds of people, and that requires some introspection. Luck is not as blind as we think.
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