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QUOTE=Lowexpectations;35522304]404: Plan not found. Far too many people excuse poor financial behavior on the outside chance hat something bad might happen tomorrow. Truth is most end up with a poor quality of life due to this attitude, that I could die tomorrow[/quote]
I agree ,usually folks who screw up in planning or financially end up throwing in the well i can die tomorrow.
Great, dying takes no planning. The bigger issue is always what if i live.
As they say if you want to do something you will find a way otherwise you will find an excuse.
You can spend your life doing what you are doing and try to.prepare for a cruise at age 60 with a bunch of wrinkled farts talking about your past 25 yrd at the corp and all of your investments, or you can do like me and pour tbousands into learning and producing music, travel, skydive etc. I chose to.invest in myself, and I am 100% more happy since I shifted my life toward that focus.
Yeah, some people save too much and put far too much off in the future. I think, in some senses, it becomes an addiction to some. I also find it strange to what degree people discount pensions, SS, etc. I pay ~$14,000/year into the SS system.....and I'm not suppose to factor this money into retirement plans? I'm not going to work more, save more out of paranoia that social security isn't going to exist in the future when this can be said of virtually anything you do with your money. I would also never base what I need for retirement on my current income, I can live happily with very little. Probably wouldn't want just SS, but SS + $1,500~2,000/month would be just fine, and this is what I base my calculations on.
In any case, right now I'm saving a ton and it all seems pretty pointless. But the only thing I'd want is more free time and its more difficult to buy that than material things. Worse case for me is that I continue as is and retire very early in 5~8 years and work on little side projects for extra money. But the last thing I want is to work for another 20~30 years and retire when I'm in my 60's and have a ton of money in the bank, 401(k), IRAs, etc.
Absolutely. The guy points to panic selling in 2008 as proof that his philosophy of not saving is superior, when the people who stayed in the market and kept investing are far ahead of the game. He's a poster child of American financial illiteracy.
Absolutely. The guy points to panic selling in 2008 as proof that his philosophy of not saving is superior, when the people who stayed in the market and kept investing are far ahead of the game.
Far ahead of the game in what sense? The market recovered but returns have been relatively poor unless you just so happen to make the right picks. Also, unless you realize the gain now, you're counting your eggs before they hatch. Nothing guarantees that you won't have a big crash just when you need to start distributing the funds. Average market returns tell you very little.
Absolutely. The guy points to panic selling in 2008 as proof that his philosophy of not saving is superior, when the people who stayed in the market and kept investing are far ahead of the game. He's a poster child of American financial illiteracy.
Lol when did I say my philosophy was "superior"? On the contrary, everyone else here has made the counterclaim to my disfavor.
Far ahead of what "game"? Please define that term. My best friend at work lost $30k on his home when the market crashed, and NEVER recouped the lost equity or even the downpayment. A lot of people are in the same boat. And you claim I'm the one that's financially illiterate? Lol okay.
You can ignore what I posted about 10 times now if you like, but that changes absolutely nothing. I have one form of investment - which history proves is as rock solid as gibraltar - and you've chosen another. No one is "right" or "wrong" or "ahead" or "behind". Both entail some risk (ANY investnent does). I would argue mine has less risk than yours.
I don't have cable. Or internet. I buy $10 shirts at Koles, $14 pants and Costco. Lol what do you do genius? Enlighten me as to your superior ways. Show me your cost analysis as to buying V renting. I have broken it down from closing costs to tax benefits and assumed rates of return on savings between the two, with tax benefit analysis included (I am an auditor). I determined based on historical rates of appreciation in my area, renting is smarter right now.
What have you done genius?
The only things I posted were (1) This is a D measuring, exageration contest (and it is), (2) most people in this country have far less than what people are posting here (100% true). Never said my path was "right" or "better"; only that it's better for me. If you want to work 60 hrs per week and justify it by checking your bank account every month, preparing for your 50's or 60's, fine by me. I respect that, too. I even considered that but opted not to. Nonetheless, I will retire young.
Me? I work extremely hard at what I want. I live for now. My goal is to be great at something. My life is a complete failure if I chase money. I'd be miserable chasing that goal, as I was while taking the CPA exam and planning my six figure salary. It is a trap, a middle class joke. I am SO happy I broke away from it. Never been happier in my life, ever.
Good luck and I hope you reach your financial goals.
I don't agree the returns have been poor. Just considering the S&P: someone who at the beginning of 2008 had $100k in the market and continued to put in $10k a year, and reinvested dividends would have had over $243k at the end of 2013.
The people who complain are those got burned when they panicked, sold low, and missed the rebound. And now they're coming back in the market, but they're buying high.
There is no need to 'make the right picks'. The right pick is a combination of three low-cost index funds that track the US stock market, US bond market, and international stock market.
As far as counting eggs before they hatch, the same can be said of losses in any given year. Unless you panic and sell, you haven't lost any money. In fact, that is the best time to buy more shares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Far ahead of the game in what sense? The market recovered but returns have been relatively poor unless you just so happen to make the right picks. Also, unless you realize the gain now, you're counting your eggs before they hatch. Nothing guarantees that you won't have a big crash just when you need to start distributing the funds. Average market returns tell you very little.
Lol when did I say my philosophy was "superior"? On the contrary, everyone else here has made the counterclaim to my disfavor.
Far ahead of what "game"? Please define that term. My best friend at work lost $30k on his home when the market crashed, and NEVER recouped the lost equity or even the downpayment. A lot of people are in the same boat. And you claim I'm the one that's financially illiterate? Lol okay.
You can ignore what I posted about 10 times now if you like, but that changes absolutely nothing. I have one form of investment - which history proves is as rock solid as gibraltar - and you've chosen another. No one is "right" or "wrong" or "ahead" or "behind". Both entail some risk (ANY investnent does). I would argue mine has less risk than yours.
I don't have cable. Or internet. I buy $10 shirts at Koles, $14 pants and Costco. Lol what do you do genius? Enlighten me as to your superior ways. Show me your cost analysis as to buying V renting. I have broken it down from closing costs to tax benefits and assumed rates of return on savings between the two, with tax benefit analysis included (I am an auditor). I determined based on historical rates of appreciation in my area, renting is smarter right now.
What have you done genius?
The only things I posted were (1) This is a D measuring, exageration contest (and it is), (2) most people in this country have far less than what people are posting here (100% true). Never said my path was "right" or "better"; only that it's better for me. If you want to work 60 hrs per week and justify it by checking your bank account every month, preparing for your 50's or 60's, fine by me. I respect that, too. I even considered that but opted not to. Nonetheless, I will retire young.
Me? I work extremely hard at what I want. I live for now. My goal is to be great at something. My life is a complete failure if I chase money. I'd be miserable chasing that goal, as I was while taking the CPA exam and planning my six figure salary. It is a trap, a middle class joke. I am SO happy I broke away from it. Never been happier in my life, ever.
Good luck and I hope you reach your financial goals.
Your post are conflicting. You make 75k now but say in another thread that you feel like you need 100k to get by.
I don't agree the returns have been poor. Just considering the S&P: someone who at the beginning of 2008 had $100k in the market and continued to put in $10k a year, and reinvested dividends would have had over $243k at the end of 2013.
This example makes little sense, you'd want to know their total contributions of earned income to the market not their unrealized return at some particular dates. The S&P started to decline in 2007 and its level in 2007 were, adjusted for inflation, less than in 2000.
Also, as before, you're counting eggs before they hatch. For retirement, your current unrealized return doesn't mean anything....only your realized return when you have to start taking distributions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoutboy
The people who complain are those got burned when they panicked, sold low, and missed the rebound.
What rebound? The market is, adjusted for inflation, about where it was in 2000. Complain about what exactly? I was never "burned" by the market. Here and there, for fun, I gamble in the stock market but the vast majority of my money is in low risk investments. I'd prefer more security to higher potential returns.
People, as yourself, seem to have a tremendous amount of faith in the idea that the stock market will perform in the future as it has in the past but then scoff at people that plan on pensions and social security. The guy with the low savings account has a job with the state with a state pension.....that is far more reliable than a gamble in the stock market.
I don't agree the returns have been poor. Just considering the S&P: someone who at the beginning of 2008 had $100k in the market and continued to put in $10k a year, and reinvested dividends would have had over $243k at the end of 2013.
The people who complain are those got burned when they panicked, sold low, and missed the rebound. And now they're coming back in the market, but they're buying high.
There is no need to 'make the right picks'. The right pick is a combination of three low-cost index funds that track the US stock market, US bond market, and international stock market.
As far as counting eggs before they hatch, the same can be said of losses in any given year. Unless you panic and sell, you haven't lost any money. In fact, that is the best time to buy more shares.
actually for anyone who had money in pre 2000 the returns have been poor on all older money. i surely expected to be way a head by now based on just typical average returns . on an inflation adjusted bases older money made less than 1/3 the progress most investors expected.
how poor did markets do ?
as of june 2014 , including reinvesting all dividends 1000.00 bucks pre year 2000 grew to 1644.00 14 years later .
after adjusting for inflation it is 1191.00.
that is a real return of 1.91% . what is scarey is michael kitces computed the fact that the so called 4% rule of safe withdrawal rates would fail for those retired in any 30 year time frame where avberage real returns were less than 2% for the first 15 years.
Investing in the market is not 'gambling' if done appropriately: following a consistent long-term strategy of diversification through indexing. 'Gambling' is when people try to time the market or pick the next Apple/Google. The real returns of equities over time come out ahead of all other investment options, especially after factoring inflation. For the common investor, it offers the greatest chance for success over time. There is no shortage of studies that confirm this.
Pensions and s.s. are great; I hope to have both. But to put all one's eggs in those baskets is highly risky. Especially if there is little in the way of additional savings.
Your choice of 2000 is cherry-picking and irrelevant for an investor who will be in the market over decades, particularly for one who reinvests dividends . For that investor, the stock market has returned approximately 7% after adjusting for inflation, if we take into account the entire history of the US stock market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
This example makes little sense, you'd want to know their total contributions of earned income to the market not their unrealized return at some particular dates. The S&P started to decline in 2007 and its level in 2007 were, adjusted for inflation, less than in 2000.
Also, as before, you're counting eggs before they hatch. For retirement, your current unrealized return doesn't mean anything....only your realized return when you have to start taking distributions.
What rebound? The market is, adjusted for inflation, about where it was in 2000. Complain about what exactly? I was never "burned" by the market. Here and there, for fun, I gamble in the stock market but the vast majority of my money is in low risk investments. I'd prefer more security to higher potential returns.
People, as yourself, seem to have a tremendous amount of faith in the idea that the stock market will perform in the future as it has in the past but then scoff at people that plan on pensions and social security. The guy with the low savings account has a job with the state with a state pension.....that is far more reliable than a gamble in the stock market.
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