Why Did Septa Get Rid Of Routes 23 and 56? (Philadelphia, Erie: transfer, neighborhood)

[chris123678]

Why has Septa decided to replace those lines with busses? Do you think Septa should resinstate those lines as trolleys?

They are planning on doing so in the future.

[DarkWolf]

Because Septa is run by morons...the state has rebuilt half the 23 line and is doing the 56....down the road they will be forced the reinstate the trolley network....buses can't handle the surging ridership.

[chris123678]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Because Septa is run by morons...the state has rebuilt half the 23 line and is doing the 56....down the road they will be forced the reinstate the trolley network....buses can't handle the surging ridership.

I was recently up Germantown Avenue and couldn't believe that the tracks and wires were still hanging above.
It made me wonder when they will reinstate these light rail lines. I sat in a pizza shop and watched. It took 3 buses running back to back, to handle the rideship every 10 minutes for route 23

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by chris123678

I was recently up Germantown Avenue and couldn't believe that the tracks and wires were still hanging above.
It made me wonder when they will reinstate these light rail lines. I sat in a pizza shop and watched. It took 3 buses running back to back, to handle the ridership every 10 minutes for route 23

The DOT rebuilt the line a few years ago ....Septa seems to be eyeing the 2020s.... The New Trolleys will be ordered around 2017...these trolleys will have double the capacity of a standard bus... For some reason Septa thinks Buses are cheaper to run , when there more expensive in dense areas where you have to run multiple buses per 15-20 mins... The cost of restoring the 23 , 56 , Waterfront , 60 , and 6 Trolleys was estimated to be 500 Million...not that much for a system that would get close to 400,000...daily users....

[chris123678]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

The DOT rebuilt the line a few years ago ....Septa seems to be eyeing the 2020s.... The New Trolleys will be ordered around 2017...these trolleys will have double the capacity of a standard bus... For some reason Septa thinks Buses are cheaper to run , when there more expensive in dense areas where you have to run multiple buses per 15-20 mins... The cost of restoring the 23 , 56 , Waterfront , 60 , and 6 Trolleys was estimated to be 500 Million...not that much for a system that would get close to 400,000...daily users....

Septa made a big mistake putting 15 back. Ridership isn't high enough to make that line a priority when you have 23 and 56 to worry about.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by chris123678

Septa made a big mistake putting 15 back. Ridership isn't high enough to make that line a priority when you have 23 and 56 to worry about.

The 15 down the road will tie into other lines , so it was the first step...but right after that the 23 and 56 should have come back then the 60 , 6 , Waterfront and then other lines like the 104 to Newtown SQ.

[pman]

Originally Posted by chris123678

Septa made a big mistake putting 15 back. Ridership isn't high enough to make that line a priority when you have 23 and 56 to worry about.

that wasn't septa but Rendell. SEPTA would have been happy keeping it a bus. rendell's team thought tourists would ride it to the zoo. the 23 doesn't need to be a trolley, at least in its entirety. it's several different routes mashed together. the ridership profil from broad and erie to germantown is heavy, more similar to the 47. in south and north philly, the 47 is a more heavily ridden route, and in the NW it peters out before it gets to chestnut hill. the 56 would is a good crosstown and erie could accommodate dedicate right of way.

[2e1m5a]

Is there any way for the 23 trolley to feed into the BSL at Broad and Erie in the future? That would be very convenient.

Also, I hate that San Francisco bought 20 trolleys off Septa. Why would Septa sell them, knowing they wanted to restore these lines? UGH!


"San Francisco's purchase of twenty Philadelphia PCCs is the most ambitious project of these, so far.

San Francisco's Municipal Railway, or Muni, bought a fleet of our trolleys at the bargain basement price of $12,000 each, and had them completely rebuilt at a cost of about $460,000 apiece. Keep in mind that new streetcars cost in the neighborhood of $1.5 to $2 million each."

[drive carephilly]

It's ridiculous that the SEPTA will only substitute the restored PCC cars on the 15 with a bus and not with one of the Kawasaki trolleys.

As for the 23 - There's no reason for that bus to go from Broad & Oregon to Chestnut Hill. If people need to get from one end of the city to the other it's much faster to take the subway to Broad & Erie and transfer.

IMO it should be 3 different routes: one that goes from South Philly, through Temple and up to Broad & Erie; one route that runs from Chestnut Hill down to the Temple campus and another that runs on Germantown Ave. from Germantown to NoLibs.

[pman]

You could tie it in to the bsl at the traffic island on broad. Ideally they'd extend the subway to chelten but outside that coordinated free transfers would be a good start. As for rolling sstock I'd prefer a modern low level trolley.