Is the Septa subway really that bad? (Philadelphia, Harrisburg: city hall, crime rate)

[Coem]

I'm visiting Philadelphia soon and all of my native Philadelphian co-workers have warned me against taking the subway. Is it really that bad? I've been on subways in Boston, New York and D.C and they all seem fine in terms of convienience and safety. What makes the Septa subway so different?

[Unstable]

SEPTA doesn't really have a "subway" system - just the Broad Street line and the EL. Regional Rail provides the suburban reach you know from the T, MTA, and Metro.

[JHG722]

It's better than the T.

[solibs]

No, it's not bad. It's very comparable to Boston's "T" in terms of size and ridership and while it's slightly more expensive I think the service is better.

I know a guy, a native South Philadelphian, who, when he can't get a ride to work will walk from Broad & Wolf to 20th & Callowhill . . . 3 miles. I have nothing against walking but he's not doing it for the exercise. He normally walks on top of the subway line for most of his route and, alternately there's a bus that runs 2 blocks from his house that will drop him off 3 blocks from his work. I asked him why he didn't take the bus or the train and his evasive answer suggested that it's not socially acceptable for people like him to use transit. He would lose cool points with his friends. It's the pervasive suburban attitude that using transit is an admission that you're poor. Which is almost laughable because, particularly at the times he normally commutes, the system is full of professionals going to and from their jobs where they make a lot more money than any of his friends do.

[TheSanity]

Technically, I'm not a native to Philadelphia (I grew up in the surrounding counties) but Philly was the first mass transit system I used when I moved to college. I have to say that I use the Broad Street Line going north/south everyday to get to and from school. I live deeper down the BSL (Snyder) and I go all the way up to Temple and the quickest I can get there is about 13-15 minutes which is acceptable.

I remember back in November when the Phillies won the World Series. Septa had posted everywhere to not drive into the city and use Septa instead (to alleviate traffic and parking issues, I assume) and it's sad to say that Septa did not handle the increased volume well. It was Friday that the city had the parade and I was coming home from Temple U going south on the Broad Street Line and they actually discontinued service into the city. I was forced to get off at Race/Vine. I tried to go into the City Hall subway stop but that was closed off as well. The C Bus (the bus equivalent of the subway line) was also discontinued for obvious reasons. But what pissed me off was that they also discontinued the other bus routes going in the same direction. I actually had to walk from Race/Vine to my house on Ritner (which is about 2-3 miles) and it took me about an hour. I was not a happy camper, especially coming home from a stressful cell biology lab!

I suppose they discontinued the southbound subway lines to divert all resources to the northbound line (to carry all the people from South Philly out of South Philly).

I heard they also discontinued the regional rail lines coming into the city as well.

But I guess that that one incident was abnormal subway usage. I mean, its not everyday that the Phillies win the world series. In conclusion - SEPTA isn't bad. It's just hectic during peak usage and that could be said for many public transportation systems.

Originally Posted by solibs

No, it's not bad. It's very comparable to Boston's "T" in terms of size and ridership and while it's slightly more expensive I think the service is better.

I know a guy, a native South Philadelphian, who, when he can't get a ride to work will walk from Broad & Wolf to 20th & Callowhill . . . 3 miles. I have nothing against walking but he's not doing it for the exercise. He normally walks on top of the subway line for most of his route and, alternately there's a bus that runs 2 blocks from his house that will drop him off 3 blocks from his work. I asked him why he didn't take the bus or the train and his evasive answer suggested that it's not socially acceptable for people like him to use transit. He would lose cool points with his friends. It's the pervasive suburban attitude that using transit is an admission that you're poor. Which is almost laughable because, particularly at the times he normally commutes, the system is full of professionals going to and from their jobs where they make a lot more money than any of his friends do.

That man is ridiculous. The subway makes up a whole bunch of people of different races, classes, etc.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Coem

I'm visiting Philadelphia soon and all of my native Philadelphian co-workers have warned me against taking the subway. Is it really that bad? I've been on subways in Boston, New York and D.C and they all seem fine in terms of convienience and safety. What makes the Septa subway so different?

I've only been on Boston's "T" once several years ago but recall thinking it was nice. It was definitely less expensive than SEPTA. Credit Massachusetts - or blame Harrisburg - for their respective levels of state funding.

DC's Metrorail is sort of a hybrid of the El and Regional Rail. Compared to SEPTA subways, it's amazingly nice but it's amazing expensive.

The best thing about New York subways is their coverage, especially in Manhattan. However, it's probably the only system out of these three where I'd be a bit cautious at late night.

With SEPTA subways, it sort of depends on where you want to go. If you're doing the "typical" tourist areas - i.e. Center City, the South Philly arenas and stadiums - then you'll be fine. Taking the Market-Frankford El east-west through Center City or the Broad Street Line to and from South Philly is usually more convenient than a bus let alone driving. The only caveat is that there is a bit of a rude culture that doesn't discourage throwing trash onto the tracks instead of the highly visible trash cans. That may be a contributor to the occasional foul scent in some stations, particularly on the El. Then again, it's an old subway system so you may just be sensing the sewers just below.

[solibs]

DC Metrorail is basically like our red line - which is run by PATCO, not SEPTA.

With SEPTA subways/trolleys you drop a token or swipe your card and you can ride as far as the route goes for $1.45

With PATCO there are multiple fare zones so the further you go the more you pay. You use your card to enter the system and you have to use it again to exit.

I know it'll never happen but i think we'd have a more extensive/integrated subway system if PATCO ran all the subways. I mean, the two agencies are moving towards fare integration anyway. It'll be here in two years when SEPTA gets their new ticket vending machines.

[Sassygirl18]

I ride on the Market Frankford El every day - to and from work at rush hour. It's not bad. Yes, you do hear occasionally of crimes on the trains, but considering the numbers of people that ride SEPTA, I don't think the crime rate on the trains is that high. If you are comfortable riding on the subway in other major cities, you won't have a problem with Philly's trains. I work with a woman who is 80 and who also rides the El every day, as she's been doing for 27 years. I asked her if she's ever witnessed (or been the victim of) a crime on the train and she said no.

The worst thing about riding the El (from my perspective) is that a lot of people who ride it are low class and have bad manners....eating on the train, shouting at (and smacking) their kids, barging into the train before people have gotten off, not moving out of the way to let people by - that kind of stuff. Nothing I can't put up with for 15 minutes.

[lititzman2003]

When I lived in the Philly area I rode SEPTA alot, and I used to look at the system as a "neighborhood", like I would any other neighborhood in Philly. People "lived" on that particular train, trolley car, bus, etc for an hour or so. Overall, I found the SEPTA "neighborhood" to be safe. Yes, like Sassy said, it wasn't always the nicest place to be but it sure beat driving in bad weather and sitting in traffic jams

[*Sweetkisses*]

I take SEPTA everyday, You'll be fine. Philly transit is better than a lot of cities I have been to so I'm not complaining.