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100% guarantee is not necessary. If you want to be a brain surgeon then you will go to undergrad, then medical school, then residency, then apply for a job. You will go into debt for 100s of thousands of dollars and spend 15 years of your life attempting to achieve that goal. Is it 100% guaranteed? No. Does it need to be? No. Not one decision you will ever make requires 100% guarantee. That you need this guarantee in order to wag your finger around is absurd. The premise is irrational, mindless, and unintelligent.
I agree on that with you. You don't need 100% guarantees with your life. The decisions you make with your life is your problem. You calculate the probabilities, assume your own risks and make your choices. However, the issue with procreation is that you are risking the life of an innocent person without a consent. To take risks, you need a consent. Taking risks with the life of a person without a consent is immoral. If a child is harmed by procreation, she is fully entitled to claim her rights because she didn't consent to be here.
Even if you are fortunate to live in a comfortable and rich country, even if you can provide everything to your children, there is no certainity that their lives will not result in misery. There are infinity possibilities for misery in this world, too much suffering we no have control over. For example, your potential child could develop cancer or an incurable disease that will cause suffering for the rest of her life. She can be abducted by a psychopath and be held captive and tortured for many years. She can be a victim of social rejection. She can experience an extremely traumatic experience.. ect.. Nothing here is under our control...
Who are parents to make this serious decision onto a childs behalf?
Consider this scenario: I want to make a scientific experiment with 10 people without their consent. I know the result of this experiment will be immensely beneficial for most of them. However I know there is a 10 % probability that this experiment will cause terrible negative effects. In the end, I benefit 9 people and 1 person is severely harmed causing her to become blind, paralysed, and she will experience physical pain for the rest of her life. Did I commit an immoral act?
However, the issue with procreation is that you are risking the life of an innocent person without a consent. To take risks, you need a consent. Taking risks with the life of a person without a consent is immoral. If a child is harmed by procreation, she is fully entitled to claim her rights because she didn't consent to be here.
Again, we don't know for certain that people didn't consent to be here
prior to birth.
I agree on that with you. You don't need 100% guarantees with your life. The decisions you make with your life is your problem. You calculate the probabilities, assume your own risks and make your choices. However, the issue with procreation is that you are risking the life of an innocent person without a consent. To take risks, you need a consent. Taking risks with the life of a person without a consent is immoral. If a child is harmed by procreation, she is fully entitled to claim her rights because she didn't consent to be here.
Who are parents to make this serious decision onto a childs behalf?
We are everything. That's what we are. I know what is best for my child. That is something you fail to grasp. It's my decision to make, not her's.
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Consider this scenario: I want to make a scientific experiment with 10 people without their consent. I know the result of this experiment will be immensely beneficial for most of them. However I know there is a 10 % probability that this experiment will cause terrible negative effects. In the end, I benefit 9 people and 1 person is severely harmed causing her to become blind, paralysed, and she will experience physical pain for the rest of her life. Did I commit an immoral act?
First off, procreation is not an experiment. It's not a gamble, either. There is no 10% probability either.
It's wrong to have children because we live in a world full of pain, misery, suffering, violence, bullies, and children are vulnerable to everything. Why do people have children in a world like this? Are they blind and in denial? Parents are aware of all misery that contains in this world and still choose to procreate to please themselves. Having children is an extremely selfish act and it's wrong.
All of pain, misery, suffering, violence, bullies,ect,are becuase of that all of us desire to live.
I thought this post was a joke. Reproducing is about the most "natural" instinct. Giving birth to human children has been the most incredible, powerful, natural, inspiring and loving experiences I will ever have. Nurturing, guiding, mentoring, loving and inspiring my kids to be the humans they are supposed to be is what I love about motherhood. Oh, and laughing and giggling with my kiddos. Watching a child find her own inspiration and seeing the joy in her eyes. Loving someone besides yourself is the definition of true love. That is why I had children. I would do it again and again. No regrets...EVER.
We are everything. That's what we are. I know what is best for my child. That is something you fail to grasp. It's my decision to make, not her's..
Your child is not you. She is not your property. You are not allowed to do what you want with her.
Only the child knows what is the best for her. Not the parent. I think this world is a vile, disgusting and horrible place, I wish I wasn't born. My parents opinions are irrelevant. I am the person who lives the life they created, only my opinion matters.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
First off, procreation is not an experiment. It's not a gamble, either. There is no 10% probability either.
It's the DNA lottery. It wouldn't be gamble only if there were 100 % guarantees. 10 % chance of failure or 1 % chance of failure risking a person without a consent is still immorality.
I thought this post was a joke. Reproducing is about the most "natural" instinct. Giving birth to human children has been the most incredible, powerful, natural, inspiring and loving experiences I will ever have. Nurturing, guiding, mentoring, loving and inspiring my kids to be the humans they are supposed to be is what I love about motherhood. Oh, and laughing and giggling with my kiddos. Watching a child find her own inspiration and seeing the joy in her eyes. Loving someone besides yourself is the definition of true love. That is why I had children. I would do it again and again. No regrets...EVER.
Yes procreation is one of the most selfish and vain acts. Parents only care about the pleasure of parenthood, they dont care about the suffering and fate of the child. Their pleasure comes first.
If the child is severely harmed, it's her problem.
Mother nature is not a benevolent entity who cares about her progeny.
The equation with natural and morally good is dangerous.
Your child is not you. She is not your property. You are not allowed to do what you want with her.
It has nothing to do with property. She's not an object. Again, the decision to bring her into this world was not her's to make. It was mine alone. That is the reality and nature of the parent. And I do exactly what I want with her, which is to shower her with love and joy. That you would assume anything negative speaks to your own mind and that you think you can insert yourself and your judgements into the precious parent/child relationship of strangers is twisted.
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Only the child knows what is the best for her. Not the parent. I think this world is a vile, disgusting and horrible place, I wish I wasn't born. My parents opinions are irrelevant. I am the person who lives the life they created, only my opinion matters.
My child has no idea what is best for her. She cannot feed herself or take care of herself. I take care of her every need and I protect her. I'm sorry you wish you weren't born. Obviously your parents failed you in every way possible, but you are way off the mark to desire to enforce your will onto others. Your suffering is yours to bear. Other children and parents, past, present, and future, should not be held accountable for your troubles.
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It's the DNA lottery. It wouldn't be gamble only if there were 100 % guarantees. 10 % chance of failure or 1 % chance of failure risking a person without a consent is still immorality.
You don't seem to grasp statistics or probabilities. For example, there would be a zero % chance that I could have conceived you and all your problems. Not 10, not 1.
Last edited by Braunwyn; 01-05-2014 at 08:42 AM..
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