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I agree with poster Northsouth. If someone says there is an afterlife it's up to the person making the claim to prove it, not the other way around.
I'm a I want to evidence person and I see none regarding an afterlife. I'll do my own thinking. Due to lack of evidence I came to the conclusion a long time ago that god and an afterlife is all a lie.
I agree with poster Northsouth. If someone says there is an afterlife it's up to the person making the claim to prove it, not the other way around.
Yup, that's just simple logic because you can't prove a negative. If something never existed, then there can be absolutely no evidence to prove or disprove it's existence. To think not being able to disprove (negative statement) something means the inverse (affirmative statement) is just as plausible is moronic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13
I'm a I want to evidence person and I see none regarding an afterlife. I'll do my own thinking. Due to lack of evidence I came to the conclusion a long time ago that god and an afterlife is all a lie.
I wouldn't so it's necessarily a lie, or least usually a lie; it's just delusional. Most of profess belief in god and an afterlife are sincere, but probably deluded. I posted links to a couple books early in this thread that provided detailed analysis of how the human mind is susceptible to believe such fallacies.
Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
And that is what lost people look for in vain ... Signs and Wisdom.
Also the preaching of the cross and Christ is to them that perish foolishness,
and they never understand. They say it is all lies.
But unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Cor:1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22: For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28: And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30: But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
According to Zanza, we humans are nothing more than bacteria clinging to His body.
Quote from Zanza:
""It is from me that all life is born. It lives only for me. And it shall be returned!"
Martian : By watching life. Observing nature and cooperating with it. Making common cause with the process of existence.
[/indent]
There are some commensal relationships, however, nature in general is pretty darn cruel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat
We were created to have a relationship with our Creator. Because he wants us to choose him and not be robots about it, he gave us free will. And you are free to execute it as you will.
The free-will argument. If this is true then stop fussing about it. Whether I, him, or her, choose to believe in your God or not should not be an issue. I mean, if I have this free-will then what I choose should ultimately be none of your business, but for some reason what I choose is "your" business. If there is a God than my choice will be between "him" and I and is simply none of your business. Period.
*I am using the colloquial you here, not you personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle
Yup, that's just simple logic because you can't prove a negative. If something never existed, then there can be absolutely no evidence to prove or disprove it's existence. To think not being able to disprove (negative statement) something means the inverse (affirmative statement) is just as plausible is moronic.
In order for something to be true it needs to remain true in every instance every time. It only takes one instance of false in order to prove the statement to be untrue. So, in order to prove that something is true it must be proved not false in every instance first. In order to prove that water is wet you must first prove that it is not dry in every-which-way, that sort of thing.
The irony is that one cannot possibly prove that God exists because one can also not prove that God does not exist. This is partially because the definition of "God" is not singular but instead some sort of omnipotent presence. It is an impossible task to begin with and also because the definition of God will (and has) change in order to fit the need.
That is why it is called Faith, those who believe have faith in that what they believe holds true. There is simply no need for proof as having the belief alone is proof enough. The flip side is that none can claim that the Lord moves in mysterious ways (face it, that is a cop-out) because none knows how the Lord moves. Or does not move. Those who claim that the Lord is fact do not have faith because that defeats the whole meaning of the word; you can only have faith in the unknown.
Atheists also have faith in their belief of a nothingness. Philosophically speaking, that is some deep stuff to grapple with. You can't even begin to imagine what nothingness is all about. No one can.
Anyhow, to the OP: why does it matter? Life does not require a meaning to make it meaningful. Look into Humanism for examples of this.
Oh, please. By that logic Christians have been known to disavow or marginalize their brothers and sisters who have personal problems and tragedies on the basis that "real Christians" aren't cursed, but blessed. It's always your fault somehow if you suffer too much or not meekly enough or in ways that disturb the slumber of others. And then the final betrayal for us deconverts: You Were Never One of Us. You would have accepted me as a brother in Christ, and commended me as such, for three decades. But all I had to do was look at (lack of) evidence enough to lose my belief, and it's all null and void.
Shame on you. Shame on you for your dishonesty and disloyalty and conditional love. And your arrogance.
And deliberate blindness. No such thing as an ex-Christian. No such thing as evolution. No such thing as ethics or morality apart from what Christianity says is ethical and moral. No such thing as anything that's inconvenient for your beliefs.
You Were Never One Of Us is nothing more than an implied threat of disacknowledgment and shunning for those within the faith, should they have the temerity to ask impertinent questions. What are Christians so terrified of? What do they have to fear from honest inquiry, anyway?
And none of the above actions have anything to do with Christ.
God is Love. His purpose for humankind is restorative. I could go on.
What so-called Christianity has done in the Name of Christ is atrocious. I haven't met any sincere follower of Christ would would dispute this.
Jesus gave us two commandments: to love God with everything in us and our neighbor as ourselves. I have no interest in, and do not support the many ways that man continues to pervert the teachings of Christ.
Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
And that is what lost people look for in vain ... Signs and Wisdom.
Also the preaching of the cross and Christ is to them that perish foolishness,
and they never understand. They say it is all lies.
But unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Cor:1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22: For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28: And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30: But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
.
This is quite entertaining, since it was the Greeks who invented Christianity. The whole New Testament was written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic, because the Jews had very little to do with Christianity. Jesus was just a failed messiah, who expected the Mount of Olives to split in half and the heavenly host to issue forth and kick Roman butt. (Zech. 14) That's what you get when you start believing religious texts. It leads you to nonsense. In his case, he ended up dead.
Deifying a human being was a Greek tradition that was, and still is, repugnant to the Jews. They know Jesus was not a messiah because he failed before he even got started, and the Romans still destroyed Judaea. They're still waiting, which they don't mention much. Their first messiah was Joshua, and archaeologists have pretty well established that his conquest of Canaan didn't happen. It turns out the Jews were Canaanites all along. The Exodus never happened, though Canaan was an Egyptian tributary state for centuries.
When you read The Bible, remember that none of that is history. It is just stories people told, for their own purposes. If you start reading it with a critical mind, it doesn't take long to realize that much of it is nonsense. In defense, the bibliolaters have decided that the bible is inerrant. If an examination of nature conflicts with the bible, in their arrogance they decide the book is right and God got it wrong.
... When you read The Bible, remember that none of that is history. It is just stories people told, for their own purposes. If you start reading it with a critical mind, it doesn't take long to realize that much of it is nonsense. In defense, the bibliolaters have decided that the bible is inerrant. If an examination of nature conflicts with the bible, in their arrogance they decide the book is right and God got it wrong.
I generally agree. I read a book, 'Taking the Bible Seriously, but not Literally'. Borg makes a convincing argument that most of the Bible was never intended to be interpreted literally. While some things might be descriptions of actual events, most of it is just parables. I do think there's some potential value in much of the Bible, but to believe it's the inerrant word of 'god' is silly.
We humans are not developed to know. I say let's just try new things, explore. Have sex, have fun, etc
The meaning of life is to learn. Sometimes that learning comes from doing the right thing, and sometimes it comes from doing the wrong thing. Sometimes it comes from a positive experience and sometimes it comes from a negative one. In the end you have learned from everything you have experienced.
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