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How can one be absolutely sure they didn't exist prior to
whatever physical form they take?
Incarnation doesn't necessarily equal essence.
Granted, I don't recall choosing to incarnate in my current physical form
in this current era, but then again, I don't recall being forced to, either.
So why assume it was forced, other than this is what the majority
have been conditioned to believe throughout the centuries?
So in other words.... WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WWOOOOOOWWWOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sorry, but the process of how individual life emerges has absolutely nothing to do with volition of that individual. It's just a consequence of events I had nothing to do with.
Prior to my physical existence it's overwhelmingly likely I simply didn't exist. We're physical beings; no physical existence=non-existence.
My friends were talking about this topic other day. Can't you see having children is an unilateral decision? I believe the imposition of life is a selfish, immoral act, and that's why I am not having children. I don't feel like I have the right to make this serious decision for someone else. We live in a world of intense suffering. When people say that life has also joy and that's a justification for procreation, I just think that chocolate chips, lollipops, candies and muffins make up for the horrors that happen in this world everyday and people should start seeing things more realistically.
Even though, I don't think procreation is something to be forbidden. I think people should be free to make this decision. I just think we should bring more awareness to this question and the immorality of procreation should be recognized.
So in other words.... WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WWOOOOOOWWWOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sorry, but the process of how individual life emerges has absolutely nothing to do with volition of that individual. It's just a consequence of events I had nothing to do with.
Prior to my physical existence it's overwhelmingly likely I simply didn't exist. We're physical beings; no physical existence=non-existence.
In your opinion, of course.
Pure speculation, either way. It's just that one view has had more air-time,
so folks are more inclined to simply buy into it.
my primary concern is not forcing existence on them it is the great sin of my generation---- refusing to move the offspring from childhood to adulthood.
an ocean of 35 year old skate board wonders.
my primary concern is not forcing existence on them it is the great sin of my generation---- refusing to move the offspring from childhood to adulthood.
an ocean of 35 year old skate board wonders.
My friends were talking about this topic other day. Can't you see having children is an unilateral decision? I believe the imposition of life is a selfish, immoral act, and that's why I am not having children. I don't feel like I have the right to make this serious decision for someone else. We live in a world of intense suffering. When people say that life has also joy and that's a justification for procreation, I just think that chocolate chips, lollipops, candies and muffins make up for the horrors that happen in this world everyday and people should start seeing things more realistically.
Even though, I don't think procreation is something to be forbidden. I think people should be free to make this decision. I just think we should bring more awareness to this question and the immorality of procreation should be recognized.
Yes, I think we're very much in agreement, though I do understand I might co-produce someone who winds up having a wonderful life. The greatest probability is that he/she would just have a typical mundane existence. He/she would experiences a few wonderful things, a few awful things, but the vast majority of experiences would be mundane and forgettable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjeena
In your opinion, of course.
Pure speculation, either way. It's just that one view has had more air-time
No, it's not simply my 'opinion'; it's the perspective that's mostly likely true. Unless someone can provide evidence for how it's even remotely possible for any facet of our being to exist prior to our actual physical existence, you're the one engaged in baseless speculation, not me. As someone asserting something in the affirmative, you're the one who must provide evidence. A positive assertion can be proven, but negative one can't, so no evidence probably equals no existence.
Acceptance of the probable finality of death is actually still a minority perspective, while belief in 'something beyond the physical self' is and has been widely held throughout history.
My friends were talking about this topic other day. Can't you see having children is an unilateral decision? I believe the imposition of life is a selfish, immoral act, and that's why I am not having children. I don't feel like I have the right to make this serious decision for someone else. We live in a world of intense suffering. When people say that life has also joy and that's a justification for procreation, I just think that chocolate chips, lollipops, candies and muffins make up for the horrors that happen in this world everyday and people should start seeing things more realistically.
Even though, I don't think procreation is something to be forbidden. I think people should be free to make this decision. I just think we should bring more awareness to this question and the immorality of procreation should be recognized.
No, it's not simply my 'opinion'; it's the perspective that's mostly likely true.
It would have to go beyond being merely a 'perspective that's most likely
true' to an actual fact in order to move beyond the realm of opinion. I
would love to see evidence that I was forced to exist. That will likely be
as forthcoming as evidence that we volunteered (though some recall
doing so; it falls under the general category of 'pre-birth planning').
Quote:
Unless someone can provide evidence for how it's even remotely possible for any facet of our being to exist prior to our actual physical existence, you're the one engaged in baseless speculation, not me.
Likewise, unless someone can provide evidence for how it's even
remotely possible for any facet of our being to *not* exist prior to our
actual physical existence, then stating otherwise has no more footing.
I have no more evidence that I was 'forced' to exist than I do that I
volunteered. So why run with it, other than if propelled by some kind of
existential crisis? Who else would consider existence an actual imposition
but those struggling with some form of depression?
Quote:
As someone asserting something in the affirmative, you're the one who must provide evidence. A positive assertion can be proven, but negative one can't, so no evidence probably equals no existence.
So since you were the first to assert, in the affirmative, that we are being
'forced' to exist, evidence for that assertion would be greatly appreciated.
Quote:
Acceptance of the probable finality of death is actually still a minority perspective, while belief in 'something beyond the physical self' is and has been widely held throughout history.
Probably because people generally realize that there is more to us than
meat-suits. The specific belief that we volunteered to come down here
might be on the rare side, however.
Incidentally, if it's true that we don't exist apart from our physical bodies,
then where's the offense in existence being 'forced' on someone? It's not
like it's a never-ending sentence.
I could see it being an issue for someone if they believed that their soul
was immortal, independent of their physical body, because then they
could complain that they've been 'forced' into something that can't be
reversed.
But if one believes that they're nothing more than their physical body,
well -- and as morbid as this may sound -- that's easily 'fixed'. Nothing's
been handed to them that can't be handed back anytime they so choose.
This, of course, is where my irony-meter gives out. Those complaining
about having been forced to exist, go on doing so anyway, so they must
be finding some benefit to that which they deem such a grave offense.
All things being equal (re: illnesses, mental disease), since happiness is a choice people tend to make, I don't agree with your premise.
Most chronically 'unhappy' people I know simply have no perspective on how good they have it.
Mental illness or chronic disease? That's a different boat, but any of us could be subject to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
The "happiness is a choice people make argument" makes me so angry due to its ignorance that i find it hard to control myself.....
Not only do I not feel comfortable giving life to more of something that is not needed, I do not feel that it would be responsible for me to do so and pass on my "faulty genetic materials." I could never forgive myself if an offspring of mine suffered a major mood disorder or schizophrenia as many in my family do.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
Didja read what I wrote?
All things being equal (not including illnesses, mental or otherwise).
Ignorance is also applicable to people who knee jerk reactions insteadly of thoughtfully reading what's presented...because you're programmed to look for the crappy lining, right?
It's your comfort zone.
No, since I'm a therapist by training, I'm programmed to see when people are minimizing mental illnesses. Many, if not most, people who are chronically "unhappy" are "CLINICALY DEPRESSED. "
See how you just made an assumption about me being "programmed to look for the crappy lining"? When you make similar incorrect sweeping statements such as "happiness is a choice" (with a little CYA PC language thrown in for good measure) it is not beneficial to anyone. In fact, it prompts people who are depressed to blame themselves more, and builds more guilt, for not "choosing to be happy."
That's because people in our society have a hard time taking responsibility for themselves and everybody wants to be a "victim" of something.
Um, yeah....
Or you know, maybe because the concept of "choosing to be happy" is a way to blame the victim of mental illness. We would never say, "how about you 'CHOOSE' to lower your blood sugar without using insulin.... you know, just 'CHOOSE' your way out of a diabetic coma."
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