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Old 01-18-2010, 10:53 AM
 
2,893 posts, read 3,584,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Place YOUR "Self" on the receiving end of what are supposed to be inputs from our sensory system reflecting reality . . . but are actually someone (or some chemical) messing with those inputs and randomly scrambling the signals.

I'm going to focus on this one statement. Because I have a return question that makes my point.


Which. Self.


As in the cases of physical schizophrenia resulting in multiple personalities and isolated hemispheres, or in the cases of extreme hallucination, the ego splits into multiple self-aware pieces acting independently.

And that can only happen by triggering neurons, not just the sensory input, but the "self-awareness" bundles as well. In other words, if multiple selves are created by bundles of neurons firing, the single self can be created the same way.
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:56 AM
 
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Late here to the conversation and while it looks very interesting, it also looks exhausting. I skimmed some only. But I did notice the following quote when I opened this topic so just to comment on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
Purely physical.

This is easily demonstrated by how easily the mind can be changed when the brain is physically affected.

How do you folks think mind-expanding drugs work? Magic?
Sorry but your easy demonstration is inconclusive on its own and contradicted by experience. Having been born a lucid dreamer in that for as far back into my childhood as I can recall I've been frequently conscious of my dreaming while my body sleeps (which I have good control of though also it happens on its own), and since I've done my share of partying, particularly during my earlier college years, I've numerous experiences with having gone to sleep completely intoxicated, yet awoken moments after falling asleep within my dreams completely sober and conscious, exhibiting to my awareness none of the effects of being intoxicated that my thinking exhibited moments before when my body was awake.

So I would argue, not magic as I'm not saying there is some kind of disconnect which would allow my dreaming to exist without my body intact, but just to say that the connection you are attempting to forge with such a statement is, well, at best hardly even convenient.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
The answer seems to change based on the subject of the thread. For example, http://www.city-data.com/forum/11687768-post47.html, where he mentions Quantitative Methods in no specific field. In this thread, it's changed to be related to neuroscience, again without specifics. Draw whatever conclusions from this you think are reasonable.

But then again, you might be labeled one of those dreaded "concrete thinkers" or a reductionist materialist for not having the imagination that a PhD could change based on what it's needed for in an on-line argument.
I'll take that label gladly.

Since he likes throwing around authority credentials, I'll provide mine.

College drop-out. Self-taught programmer. Neurological student of necessity. Liver of real life.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
I'll take that label gladly.
Since he likes throwing around authority credentials, I'll provide mine.
College drop-out. Self-taught programmer. Neurological student of necessity. Liver of real life.
Since the focus has shifted to attacking my credentials or whatever . . . I assume you have exceeded your pay grade or exhausted your intellectual ammo in this discussion. Have a nice day. God Bless. Be well, Mystic
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
I'm going to focus on this one statement. Because I have a return question that makes my point.
Which. Self.
As in the cases of physical schizophrenia resulting in multiple personalities and isolated hemispheres, or in the cases of extreme hallucination, the ego splits into multiple self-aware pieces acting independently.

And that can only happen by triggering neurons, not just the sensory input, but the "self-awareness" bundles as well. In other words, if multiple selves are created by bundles of neurons firing, the single self can be created the same way.
There is only one "Self" . . . the disorder you refer to is one of manifesting and relating to reality. A broken (traumatized) "Self" can isolate the channels through which it interacts with the environment and provide more than one outlet for its traumatized and improperly developed coping skills. These truncated versions of the "Self" represent different stages in the capabilities for coping with the current reality that are maintained separately because the critical integration of these stages did not happen (or could not happen). All we are capable of seeing are the manifestations (communications) from the dominant aspect of the "Self" at any particular time. There is still only one "Self" . . . and it can eventually be found.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Since the focus has shifted to attacking my credentials or whatever . . . I assume you have exceeded your pay grade or exhausted your intellectual ammo in this discussion. Have a nice day. God Bless. Be well, Mystic
Yeah, it's really tough when other people bring up your credentials when you're working so hard to keep them out of the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You're right . . . my knowledge of neurophysiology is at a much higher level (PhD).
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is only one "Self" . . . the disorder you refer to is one of manifesting and relating to reality. A broken (traumatized) "Self" can isolate the channels through which it interacts with the environment and provide more than one outlet for its traumatized and improperly developed coping skills.
Which is not at all what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about multiple selves, awarenesses, within the same brain.

Self 1 is having a thought. A + B = C.

Self 2 is monitoring that thought and disagrees, and makes a joke.

Self 3 sees both of these selves and tells them a joke.

Self 4 is composing an orchestra.

All operating simultaneously.

None of these are necessarily interacting with the environment. They are independently operating thought patterns within the brain.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:23 PM
 
2,893 posts, read 3,584,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Since the focus has shifted to attacking my credentials or whatever . . . I assume you have exceeded your pay grade or exhausted your intellectual ammo in this discussion. Have a nice day. God Bless. Be well, Mystic

You're the one who started in with the authority fallacy. Perhaps you are disappointed that I'm not impressed? I've known too many PhDs to be impressed.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Yeah, it's really tough when other people bring up your credentials when you're working so hard to keep them out of the conversation.
My knowledge was attacked and belittled producing an appropriate rebuttal.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:24 PM
 
23,193 posts, read 11,405,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
Which is not at all what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about multiple selves, awarenesses, within the same brain.

Self 1 is having a thought. A + B = C.

Self 2 is monitoring that thought and disagrees, and makes a joke.

Self 3 sees both of these selves and tells them a joke.

Self 4 is composing an orchestra.

All operating simultaneously.

None of these are necessarily interacting with the environment. They are independently operating thought patterns within the brain.
I am talking about the same phenomenon. They are all aspects of the same "Self" that have been isolated from each other at different stages for self-protection. They are kept from integrating by differing degrees of isolation. Normal "selves" integrate these aspects into one complex human personality. The abnormal ones have had this integration process blocked.
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