Replacement windows and AZ heat (Phoenix: home builders, transfer, buying)

[Reklaw]

After visiting the Home and Garden show I've been talking with potential contractors about replacement windows. I really don't like their tactic of "here's the great price but you have to sign the contract today". Nobody buys today without comparing prices! I find that for myself the most beneficial information is from satisfied customers. So being new to the area (2 years) and being a single mom, could anyone provide some feedback on the best type of windows for blocking the AZ heat. The side of the house with the most windows face the southwest - something I LOVE in the winter but it does make it quite warm in the summer. I'm also looking for a company that is of course licensed but also that does not use sub-contractors. Just talked with one company that promotes vinyl windows -- my experience with vinyl makes me wonder whether it could actually stand up to the heat. With the huge investment in replacement windows I'm looking for a proven product that will last over the years. Thanks for any feedback!

[Ponderosa]

You should be aware that most heat gained in a home in the Arizona desert is through radiant heat gain. You need a low E glass pane to resist that and even there, they don't do all that much. Do you have shade screens now? Those are the dark screens that block a lot of light and heat from entering. They are far, far more effective than any glass treatment (windows) and cost a fraction of what replacing your windows would. Draperies and blinds also block radiant heat gain. Fancy plantation shutters would probably do more for heat as well as improve your home's looks and resale value. It is very doubtful you will ever recover the cost of the windows in energy savings.

As for materials, I have a vinyl patio door replacement. It gets some sun and seems to be holding up OK though I am pretty skeptical about it long term based on what I have seen the sun do to everything vinyl I have owned over the years. I would feel better with aluminum though its thermal properties are not as good. Then again, conductive heat transfer is a minor fraction of the heat gain here. Definitely avoid wood.

[DellNec]

A lot of unknown factors at play here; the size of the home, the age, how many windows, what kind of current windows, budget, goals, etc.

Without knowing the above, generally speaking, it will take 10-20 years to get a ROI for a window upgrade on a home. Vinyl windows should be made of uPVC (better form of vinyl) and they MUST be reinforced with a inner steel framing for strength. Another option is aluminum clad/wood, so the exterior is aluminum and the wood is on interior. These are more money but the wood provides a thermal break from the aluminum.

There is a lot of science and new technology out there so I recommend doing a Google search and studying up before making a decision. You will want a low SHGC of < 0.30 out in PHX.

[sarichter]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

You should be aware that most heat gained in a home in the Arizona desert is through radiant heat gain. You need a low E glass pane to resist that and even there, they don't do all that much. Do you have shade screens now? Those are the dark screens that block a lot of light and heat from entering. They are far, far more effective than any glass treatment (windows) and cost a fraction of what replacing your windows would. Draperies and blinds also block radiant heat gain. Fancy plantation shutters would probably do more for heat as well as improve your home's looks and resale value. It is very doubtful you will ever recover the cost of the windows in energy savings.

As for materials, I have a vinyl patio door replacement. It gets some sun and seems to be holding up OK though I am pretty skeptical about it long term based on what I have seen the sun do to everything vinyl I have owned over the years. I would feel better with aluminum though its thermal properties are not as good. Then again, conductive heat transfer is a minor fraction of the heat gain here. Definitely avoid wood.

Interior shades really only cut down UV damage. Exterior shades (or awnings) would cut down heat gain and UV damage. The insulating value of interior shades is negligible so it won't stop radiant heat gain. There are amazing advances in window films that definitely help reduce heat gain and UV transmittance... however, it will cut down on visible light transmittance as well. The biggest thing you can do to insulate a home is insulate the walls better.

The cheaper solution would be to get a glazing film from a reputable company such as 3M.

The more expensive solution would be to spend the money on closed cell polyurethane spray foam and have them foam the exterior wall cavities. This of course includes the cost for someone to do the work and patch the small holes they will have to put in the walls (only along the exterior portions). You could also just have the windows resealed with spray foam around the perimeter of each one as most of the heat lost and gained comes from terrible flashing jobs and the infiltration rate of typical building paper.

I'm actually an architect so if you need any additional information, don't hesitate to ask.

[AZgarden]

Oh my. That's why I don't go to those home shows anymore. The salesmen jump out at you and they all are really convincing.

Unless you have unlimited income, I would not waste money on new windows. What I have always been told is that it matters not if you replace them or not, in terms of heat in summer. I did replace my sunscreens but that has not made a noticeable difference in the house. I do keep the blinds closed during the day, and the next thing I might consider are the plantation shutters. Its an issue that needs attention here in the valley. An economical, affordable solution to the ever increasing summer heat.

[sarichter]

Originally Posted by PhxBarb

Oh my. That's why I don't go to those home shows anymore. The salesmen jump out at you and they all are really convincing.

Unless you have unlimited income, I would not waste money on new windows. What I have always been told is that it matters not if you replace them or not, in terms of heat in summer. I did replace my sunscreens but that has not made a noticeable difference in the house. I do keep the blinds closed during the day, and the next thing I might consider are the plantation shutters. Its an issue that needs attention here in the valley. An economical, affordable solution to the ever increasing summer heat.

PhxBarb,

What they need to do down here is explain to contractors the benefits of actually insulating buildings properly! The new International Codes are finally addressing this even with residential construction as they are mandating continuous exterior insulation to some extent. However, they don't require buildings to be sealed and that's really the 'invisible' cause of the heat gain/loss.

Some individual contractors get this concept but most of the big home builders (the ones with the money to really make a difference) refuse to pony up the cash and support energy efficiency because their margins get smaller. Unfortunate...

[Zippyman]

I wouldn't expect windows to do much as far as protection from the heat.
New windows are great for sound reduction, and security if your old ones are single pane, but they aren't going to noticeably affect your cooling bills, especially when you consider the installation cost.

I remodeled my house a few years back and had commercial-grade "iwc" (international window company) windows installed.
They're heavy aluminum double-pane windows made in Phoenix. They open/close & lock great, reduce the noise & have held up very well. The included screens were "meh", by eastern standards, but I re-installed my old solar screens anyways.

They are much heavier/ better built than the "in stock" windows at the depot or lowes, and the cost was similar- most of the cost in windows is labor anyway. I can't recommend a contractor, because the installation was "meh", as well - if I had to do it again, I'd just do it myself & concentrate on finding a great stucco guy to clean up the mess.

There are two (common) ways to install new windows in a stucco home, neither is particularly elegant.

One is to buy "new work" windows with a nailing flange, cut out the stucco around the windows, nail in the new windows, and have a stucco guy out to repair the walls. This is usually much cheaper, since you're buying standard-sized windows. Stucco repair is actually less expensive than you might expect.

The other option is to cut just the old frame out, and install a custom sized window inside the frame. There's less stucco repair, but they can end up looking kind of dorky, especially if you put a vinyl window with a thick frame in there.

You'll likely need drywall repair with either method, if it isn't in the bid, it's likely your new windows are being installed with a mass quantity of caulk and moldings, which is kind of a waste of time and money, since the gaps around those windows are where you'll lose energy.

[observer53]

Another thing to be concerned about, if you keep your existing windows, is whether your windows (and exterior doors) are airtight. In many older homes, they are not, and that can substantially increase the cost of heating/cooling.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by observer53

Another thing to be concerned about, if you keep your existing windows, is whether your windows (and exterior doors) are airtight. In many older homes, they are not, and that can substantially increase the cost of heating/cooling.

If the house is in Phoenix, and old enough to *need* replacement windows, the house isn't airtight. Not even close. Even if you got a perfect 100% seal on the windows, the house would be leaking air like a sieve.

[MotleyCrew]

For what it is worth, we replaced all our windows and we have many, for around $2,600 but we installed them saving the labor cost. We used Milgard aluminum.