To get grass or not????????????? (Home Depot, college, closing)

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by military spouse

We moved into our house in Goodyear (Palm Valley) about 3 weeks ago and we need to landscape our backyard. I don't know the actual dimensions, but the lot is a bit over 12,000 sq. ft, with most of that area in the back (minus the house which is 2766 sq. ft.). We are thinking of a patch of grass in the middle with the rest hardscapes and xeriscaped. Any ideas on how much we might spend on watering/maintaining that grass? Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Find some books by local author Mary Irish. In particular, "Arizona Gardener's Guide" and "Perennials for the Southwest : Plants That Flourish in Arid Gardens." Check with your library - or most bookstores and nurseries sell them. These are excellent resources and written specifically for this climate. Most of the plants for sale that say "full sun" are grown in Calif. and many will fry in full sun here - so it takes some research. I found her books to be a great start.

There's an Australian nursery just west of you in Tonopah which has amazing prices and their Outback-pedigree plants and trees not only take our sun, but actually thrive when everything else is getting beat up in the summer. They are also low water plants.

You need not spend even close to that much on landscaping. You do need to take your time and plot things out. Figure out where you want shade in the summer, sun in the winter. Figure out traffic patterns. Are there views you want blocked out, such as neighbor's homes, walls, etc? Are there views you want kept clear, so to make the yard look spacious or give depth? Do you want to create focal points?

Tree placement should be the first thing you figure out. You don't need to spend a fortune on giant trees - smaller ones will grow in time and time does fly. Regardless, trees will dictate the rest of your decisions as they will impact the sun/shade of other plants. My plan, for example, is to create a canopy effect where the front and back yards are mostly shaded all day, reducing the heat island situation. But these trees also drop their leaves in the winter, so I get the wamr sun during colder months.

You might also check with nearby schools to see if there are landscaping programs/master gardener students in your area. They might be happy to work up a design for a class project or for a very small stipend just to help their career.

[odinloki1]

Originally Posted by Bill-

I've read numerous places that upwards of 80% of water use in Arizona goes to irrigated farming. It seems a bit foolish to fret about a few hundred square feet of grass while a few miles down the road some farmer is dumping 100 inches of water a year on a low value crop like alfalfa. Most of the newly developed residential areas consume a lot less water than the irrigated farms they displaced.

Yes except crops (even alfafa for animal feed) is used to feed an entire nation and give us fresh produce year round. Grass doesn't serve that purpose, unless you allow cows to graze on your lawn.

[jessiesma]

Originally Posted by odinloki1

Yes except crops (even alfafa for animal feed) is used to feed an entire nation and give us fresh produce year round. Grass doesn't serve that purpose, unless you allow cows to graze on your lawn.

I was going to say sheep but I agree with your point. who needs a lawn and why move to a desert if you want to recreate the Eastern Piedmont Georgia, Alabama and parts of neighboring states are going dry because everyone planted a useless lawn and now HOAs require they be kept green. What stupidity. if you must plant, plant something "native" and/or useful like veggies. Anything green will remove the carbon dioxide from the air. That's the other argument for grass isn't it?

The whole Creation is beautiful, you just have to change your perspective.

[warren main]

In reply to Military Spouse, cement and rocks are hot and grass is cool to the touch on a hot August afternoon.
I have been converting yards to xeriscape in the Denver area for four years and my web site www.rockymountainxeriscape.com has some xeriscape treatment we have applied to residential and commercial projects during that time.
The best plants to use are plants native to the Rocky Mountain States. Here in Colorado, we have very few "desert plants", but we have some plant that grow naturally here that you have growing wild around the Phoenix area.
Why not replace some of your lawn with native grasses, such as Indian Ricegrass, Blue Fescue, Western Wheatgrass Junegrass. By planting wild flower seeds in with the native grass seeds, your yard could and placing several big rocks in the same area you could have a very colorful and esthetically pleasing yard in no time.
Turn some of your yard into a rock garden by using ornamental grasses, succulent ground covers, ivy, wild flowers and broad leaf evergreens like Brooms, Euonymus, Holly, Rabbit Bush, Apache Blooms Yucca, Junipers and herb plants like sages, Rosemary and Bee Balm.
The most important thing to remember is that every time a person cuts their lawn they are also cutting the weeds in that lawn. When a person installs xeriscape plants, weeds will also be growing. There is a fine line between a weed and a perennial plant except where as a perennial plant usually takes a year to mature, a weed is mature at birth.
It is also important to remember flowers smell better than grass and are more pleasing to the eye.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by warren main

In reply to Military Spouse, cement and rocks are hot and grass is cool to the touch on a hot August afternoon.
I have been converting yards to xeriscape in the Denver area for four years and my web site www.rockymountainxeriscape.com has some xeriscape treatment we have applied to residential and commercial projects during that time.
The best plants to use are plants native to the Rocky Mountain States. Here in Colorado, we have very few "desert plants", but we have some plant that grow naturally here that you have growing wild around the Phoenix area.
Why not replace some of your lawn with native grasses, such as Indian Ricegrass, Blue Fescue, Western Wheatgrass Junegrass. By planting wild flower seeds in with the native grass seeds, your yard could and placing several big rocks in the same area you could have a very colorful and esthetically pleasing yard in no time.
Turn some of your yard into a rock garden by using ornamental grasses, succulent ground covers, ivy, wild flowers and broad leaf evergreens like Brooms, Euonymus, Holly, Rabbit Bush, Apache Blooms Yucca, Junipers and herb plants like sages, Rosemary and Bee Balm.
The most important thing to remember is that every time a person cuts their lawn they are also cutting the weeds in that lawn. When a person installs xeriscape plants, weeds will also be growing. There is a fine line between a weed and a perennial plant except where as a perennial plant usually takes a year to mature, a weed is mature at birth.
It is also important to remember flowers smell better than grass and are more pleasing to the eye.

Be careful with the wildflowers. My neighbor threw native wildflower seeds all around the front yard a few years back when we had a wet winter. The HOA about died! They thought they were weeds and sent out the "weed letter" then backed off when they bloomed. When they died, the weed letter went out again. For the last couple years, its been dry but enough of the flowers still pop up to make the yard look bad and get more weed letters. It's been "kinda" wet so far this year, so I suppose they will be hearing from the HOA soon

[warren main]

To Bill,
If you really think that 80% of the water for Arizona goes to farming you need to look around you. Do you ever see people watering during the day, do you ever see water going down the street gutter because someone watered too long, how often do people change the water in a 1000 gallon swimming pool, how often do you wash your car in your driveway, or let the kids play with their slip and slide in the back yard. Water that farmers use goes into the production of food, food you and I eat. Water that goes on a lawn or in a swimming pool is wasted water.
My brother in-law raised winter wheat up in Northeast Colorado on the family farm for years but now that Denver has gotten the water rites to the in ground water he couldn't even drill for water on his own property!
I own a small Xeriscape company here in the Denver area and I have figured the costs to either install a totally xeriscaped yard or covering the same area with new sod and an in ground automatic irrigation system. I can Xeriscape a yard for about $3.00 a square foot for material and labor, where as installing new sod and an irrigation system would cost up to $5.00 a square foot. The biggest saving comes from follow up maintenance, no grass to cut and no lawn to water or fertilize.
The Denver water board invented the word Xeriscape many years ago and they are still fighting an uphill battle against the narrow minds of back east immigrants that want Denver to look like Baltimore or Miami. The Denver water board is looking at a rebate program much like the one that Aurora, Colorado, has in place. To pay people to remove their lawns is sometimes akin to paying a person to change their religion.
A yard with a swimming pool and a cement patio and some palm trees and 1,500 square feet of grass is really nice to look at but that type of yard is labor intensive and unless that home owner has the time to spend on the watering and cutting he has to pay someone else at $100.00 a week.
My back yard is a brick patio with large rocks for edging and lots of ground cover and flowers and shade trees. This yard in August is 20 degrees cooler than outside the yard. No lawn, and no irrigation system and yet my back yard is like another family room on a hot summer day.
The biggest thing to remember about xeriscaping a yard, it takes about 2 to 3 years before the plants are mature and you can reap the harvest of your investment, laying new Kentucky Blue sod is NOW. But as they say somethings are worth the wait.

[wit-nit]

Farmers in AZ use approximately 68% of available water...Residential user go through enough water to serve 30 million AZ people...read the report:
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...ve-main03.html

[BillyBaroo]

Originally Posted by warren main

My back yard is a brick patio with large rocks for edging and lots of ground cover and flowers and shade trees.

I looked at your web site, very nice. I really like the work you did with the flagstone. I have some old brick I'm going to use to expand my patio. But I'd also like to use flagstone, I love the way it looks and feels. What are some approximate costs per square foot for flagstone? I also want to put in some boulders. What does it cost to get some large boulders including delivery costs?

Have you been able to use rainwater harvesting in your designs? I'm going to spend most of my budget on trees and I'm planning on trying to direct the rainwater off my roof towards the trees. I want to get the biggest trees I can instead of trying to save money and having to wait years for them to get big. I'm hoping to get two or three Chinese Pistaches http://www.delange.org/ChinesePistac...sePistache.htm, they'll provide some nice shade in the summer and then lose their leaves and allow the winter sun to keep my home warm. The leaves turn a beautiful red color in the fall.

I'll probably get some Sweet Acacias (they grow fast), Mesquites, and Palo Verdes. Mostly standard stuff, but I'm looking for some unique trees, if anyone has ideas I'd like to hear them.

This is the one tree I really want to grow in my yard, a Royal Poinciana, http://mgonline.com/royalp.html but it might not handle the occasional freezing temperatures we get, but I know there are some growing around Phoenix and Tucson. They grow real nice down in Rocky Point and I got a few seeds from one down there. Does anybody have one?

[aj661]

Originally Posted by nitram

Farmers in AZ use approximately 68% of available water...Residential user go through enough water to serve 30 million AZ people...read the report:
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...ve-main03.html

I read it and that's not what it says. That comment refers to all water used, including the 68% used by farms, not just residential users.

[wit-nit]

I read it and interpreted differently than you. Either way that's a lot of water.