Better Value: Verrado's Sophisticated Style or Estrella's Family Amenities? (Phoenix: foreclosure, renting)

[Montanama]

Wow, I just searched, and not much available in Anthem with a pool. Which, if I remember correctly, was one of the reasons we moved on to the west valley in the first place. There are lots of choices for us in Estrella Mountain Ranch or Verrado, with pools, for under $250k.

We're pretty excited to get back down there. Honestly I don't think we can go wrong either way. I know that master planned communities aren't everyone's cup of tea, and everyone hates their HOA from time to time, but coming from a place with little to no planning/zoning/control we welcome a pleasant, consistent, and tidy neighborhood!

It sounds like what I had initially perceived to be lots of additional recreational amenities in Estrella aren't adding up to all that much, but I'll reserve judgment until I see for myself.

I do worry about the viability of that downtown Verrado area, though. It's so visually appealing, but I heard Basha's is subsidized by the developer until it can turn a profit in that location. Can that be true?

[Roger427]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

You have not been to Verrado in 10 years and you are recommending it over Estrella because it feels more upscale?

Agreed.

I referee youth sports throughout the valley. Through my 20+ years officiating, I believe the actions of the coaches, kids, and fans reflect on the values of the communities they represent. This is based on my experiences in 4 states over 20+ years and I really believe it. Based on that alone, Anthem would be last choice of the 3 and probably one of the last choices in the entire metro area. Neither Verado nor Estrella has stellar reps, but they are not bad reps. Not saying it is the holy grail to deciding where to live, but yet another tool. Say what you want but when you see enough youth sports, you see what values those communities represent. It's not just one bad experience either, it's a culmination. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

[fennec2009]

Originally Posted by Montanama

I do worry about the viability of that downtown Verrado area, though. It's so visually appealing, but I heard Basha's is subsidized by the developer until it can turn a profit in that location. Can that be true?

Yes, it is. They will probably continue subsidizing them until most of the community is built out. If they still aren't profitable at that time I expect that the subsidies will stop and that location will close. It's a teeny tiny store, I can't imagine too many people do all their shopping there and wouldn't be surprised if they never make a profit. How far away is the next nearest grocery store anyway?

[hts]

You guys are kidding, right? Yes, Verrado is undeniably more upscale than EMR. I'll come right out and say it (and I don't care if you live there or are offended)--EMR seemed very white trash to me. I'm sure it's not, but that was the impression I got when we looked there (yes, 10 years ago). There's no denying the quality of a DMB community (check out their website and no, I don't work for them, know anyone who works for them, have any financial interest in them, etc.).

The knock on Anthem as a bunch of spoiled rich kids is undeserved. Do kids have a false sense of entitlement up here--maybe--I don't know. We love our community up here and think the world of it--I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not sure you can find a nice house for $250k up here with a pool, but if you're on the MLS, I'm sure you'd know better.

[military spouse]

Just to totally confuse you….. what about the townhouses at the Village of Litchfield on Village Pkwy? Great area, small community pool, larger community park, upscale feel, mostly within your price range. I love LP either within the walls or the Village at Litchfield, not the outlying county islands.

[grassfeeder]

Originally Posted by hts

You guys are kidding, right? Yes, Verrado is undeniably more upscale than EMR. I'll come right out and say it (and I don't care if you live there or are offended)--EMR seemed very white trash to me. I'm sure it's not, but that was the impression I got when we looked there (yes, 10 years ago). There's no denying the quality of a DMB community (check out their website and no, I don't work for them, know anyone who works for them, have any financial interest in them, etc.).

The knock on Anthem as a bunch of spoiled rich kids is undeserved. Do kids have a false sense of entitlement up here--maybe--I don't know. We love our community up here and think the world of it--I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not sure you can find a nice house for $250k up here with a pool, but if you're on the MLS, I'm sure you'd know better.

We just visited a couple weeks ago and we actually got the same feeling about Estrella. The older part, which is where you'd actually want to be for proximity to all the community amenities just seemed very dated and bland. We were drawn in by all the pretty on the internet as well, and while we did find the community amenities nice - the homes that also attracted us at the $250k price were all complete dumps. Total guts. Advanced digital photography certainly made these places look a lot better than they were. The newer section is really nice thats being built up but you're driving to everything in the community.

I was really impressed with Anthem. The proximity to 17 made it great for getting places quickly and there is a TON more in the immediate area. Very nice community.

We were also very impressed with the feel of Vistancia up in the N. Peoria area. Its more of a drive to get places, but it seems like there is legit intent on developing the area.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by hts

I'll come right out and say it (and I don't care if you live there or are offended)--EMR seemed very white trash to me. I'm sure it's not, but that was the impression I got when we looked there (yes, 10 years ago).

You are of course entitled to your opinion but you may find for a "very white trash" area, it is in the highest income tier(100k or more) while Anthem is one tier down in income, 75k-100k. Some well heeled/successful "white trash" live out there, eh?

Arizona Census Information

To see this, click on "household income" under "Income and Housing".

Education level's are also high/equal to Anthem.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by hts

You guys are kidding, right? Yes, Verrado is undeniably more upscale than EMR. I'll come right out and say it (and I don't care if you live there or are offended)--EMR seemed very white trash to me. I'm sure it's not, but that was the impression I got when we looked there (yes, 10 years ago). There's no denying the quality of a DMB community (check out their website and no, I don't work for them, know anyone who works for them, have any financial interest in them, etc.).

The knock on Anthem as a bunch of spoiled rich kids is undeserved. Do kids have a false sense of entitlement up here--maybe--I don't know. We love our community up here and think the world of it--I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not sure you can find a nice house for $250k up here with a pool, but if you're on the MLS, I'm sure you'd know better.

My point was that 10 years ago there was nothing in Verrado as it was in its infancy. How could you have any idea how the two communities compare a decade later without seeing them? A lot can happen in a decade, especially now that there is something actually in Verrado that you've never seen. The whole development does not look at feel like the neighborhoods right around the main street area. Things are more open out to the east towards the high school and look closer to Estrella.

Not to mention, Estrella is more than just the older Mountain Ranch neighborhood that you would have seen 10 years ago. There are two newer developments up there now.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by fennec2009

Yes, it is. They will probably continue subsidizing them until most of the community is built out. If they still aren't profitable at that time I expect that the subsidies will stop and that location will close. It's a teeny tiny store, I can't imagine too many people do all their shopping there and wouldn't be surprised if they never make a profit. How far away is the next nearest grocery store anyway?

And

Originally Posted by Montanama

but I heard Basha's is subsidized by the developer until it can turn a profit in that location. Can that be true?

I heard the same about Bashas' in Marley Park. Their rent is subsidized and I heard that is coming to an end very soon. We shall see if it makes it on its own. It will be tough. The Valley has so many grocery choices compared to MN. In MN you have Cub, Super Walmart and Costco. Target, SuperValue and nearly every other store uses Super Value to distribute their food. Oh... Super Value owns Cub foods. So for the most part, there isn't much competition.

JUST in Surprise, we have the following grocery stores: Bashas', Albertson, Fry's, Target, Safeway, Sprouts, Walmart Market, Super Walmart (x2), and Sam's. And if that wasn't enough, Winco breaks ground off of the 303 in a month.

At least in Varrado, Bashas' has a lock on the community. .

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by hts

You guys are kidding, right? Yes, Verrado is undeniably more upscale than EMR. I'll come right out and say it (and I don't care if you live there or are offended)--EMR seemed very white trash to me. I'm sure it's not, but that was the impression I got when we looked there (yes, 10 years ago). There's no denying the quality of a DMB community (check out their website and no, I don't work for them, know anyone who works for them, have any financial interest in them, etc.).

The knock on Anthem as a bunch of spoiled rich kids is undeserved. Do kids have a false sense of entitlement up here--maybe--I don't know. We love our community up here and think the world of it--I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not sure you can find a nice house for $250k up here with a pool, but if you're on the MLS, I'm sure you'd know better.

The reality is most of the communities that were all built in bubble years have turned over. The majority of the original people are gone. Now you have a lot of 2nd home owners, retirees, renters (19% to be exact), and new out of state owners, etc. As for the 19% renters (it was up to 22% and falling), in our hood it is heavily rented by military officers from Luke who make great neighbors). Some of the other renters? Well..... Some are "white trash" but thankfully a minority.

So your 10 year old observation about the people is really meaningless to me in 2014.