Our Retirement Community Visit, Phoenix-Phase III (Sun City, Maricopa: 2015, condo, coop)

[Burning Madolf]

What price in Grand are you looking?

[AZgarden]

Gene: When you come back, you should go see Sun Lakes. You might like what you see.

[cmw0829]

Hi Gene,

Nice to see you post. Once you move, you don't want to do it again so you need to make the right choice.

Funny story about lot size. We, in Grand, have a 13,000 square foot lot. The other morning, I was out walking with a friend on the street behind us. There's a house behind us that sits on that street - also on a large lot. I heard a familiar noise and realized that it was my husband sneezing. He was inside the living room adjacent to the patio with the patio door open. Can you imagine if we were on a 6,000 square foot lot? So...moral of the story is that lot size matters.

Anyway, good luck with your visit in Jan/Feb. Be sure to post as to what you find.
Cathy

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

What price in Grand are you looking?

Mid-$200k but more importantly it needs to live well. Direction of lot, prefer a 3rd bedroom or a den that can be closed off. There are some 1600+ sq ft homes that might work but more likely 1800+. When it comes to livability remodeled homes in the older communities seem to have more to offer. Grand, as I stated in an above post, is at that in-between age where homes are not old enough to need a remodel but may, within a few years, need one. It's a puzzle!

[bkypjy]

Hi Gene-I understand your pain.......my husband and I have visited a couple of communities 3x. Fortunately we have time to make our choice. That said, I have seen the price of homes rising there almost monthly and that puts a pressure on us that we would of course prefer not to have. Who says retirement is always grand?? With it comes the freedom to make choices but also the downside of knowing we also have to recognize that this should be our FINAL choice (a little scary!).

[MotleyCrew]

Did you know that K.H Homes is building a small infill tract of new builds right here in the original Sun City. They will tie into our HOA and recreational facilities. They are starting in the low $200,000 but that is without upgrades...you will need upgrades. But it is another choice here. I do not love the location...right next to the cemetery lol.
Best of luck.

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

Did you know that K.H Homes is building a small infill tract of new builds right here in the original Sun City. They will tie into our HOA and recreational facilities. They are starting in the low $200,000 but that is without upgrades...you will need upgrades. But it is another choice here. I do not love the location...right next to the cemetery lol.
Best of luck.

I toured the area of this build. I think those homes are likely to be very near or over 300-large.

We've started taking a very hard look online at Ventana Lakes. We're liking the floor plans of those Shea Homes more than the Sun Cities (original, West and Grand). It is a smaller community but the amenities seem quite nice and taxes/hoa combo is also very reasonable. Always open to comments on this community.

One complaint I'm developing is the one-time capital improvement fees on home purchases. By the time you factor that into the cost it erases the low hoa advantage of Sun City and Sun City West for years. It is 2 1/2 to almost 3 times higher than Grand. It would take 4 years or better of the lower hoa fees to break even with the hoa at Grand. For those first several years it costs MORE for the activities in SC and SCW. No doubt there's a tax advantage to the older communities but that boils down to about $70 a month (of course depending on each property compared). So, all in all there may be a long term financial advantage of the older communities but NOT a great advantage.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by GeneR

Mid-$200k but more importantly it needs to live well. Direction of lot, prefer a 3rd bedroom or a den that can be closed off. There are some 1600+ sq ft homes that might work but more likely 1800+. When it comes to livability remodeled homes in the older communities seem to have more to offer. Grand, as I stated in an above post, is at that in-between age where homes are not old enough to need a remodel but may, within a few years, need one. It's a puzzle!

Yeah, I've seen some whacky stuff in that range and even some whackier stuff in the small houses. To me, demand has been high and that's made for some interesting prices asked and paid.

[William Gordon]

Hey Gene, hope all is well. I couldn't let your comments regarding the capital improvement fees at SC and SCW go unchallenged. While you may not see them at your point of sale should you buy in a new development, they are embedded in the cost of your new home. It's what Del Webb did at the point of sale back in 1960, and it's how every developer pays for the amenity package they build into the community.

As far as comparing Sun City Grand's to SC and SCW, let's see where they go as they age. They are already having internal battles about amenities there, as they have too little space and even less resources to deal with those problems (just ask the pickleball players).

The real point of comparisons are all about monthly costs. While you gloss over the tax differences between Grand and Sun City, they are significant. Then factor those monthly rec fee differences and it quickly covers the cost of the capital improvements in short order. And, to completely ignore the $3600 fee paid in Sun City as a cost, not a benefit is short sighted. The 100 million dollar reinvestment over the next 20 years will add to SC home owners property value and provide those buying here a better quality of life.

With all of that said, I have always enjoyed your take on the various communities. Age restricted living is an animal unto itself and the home work you have done will clearly help you find the one that fits you best. When you get to town, let me know, I'd love to show you my poor tired old Sun City property and give you a tour of the Del Webb Sun Cities Museum.

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by William Gordon

Hey Gene, hope all is well. I couldn't let your comments regarding the capital improvement fees at SC and SCW go unchallenged. ...

As far as comparing Sun City Grand's to SC and SCW, let's see where they go as they age. They are already having internal battles about amenities there, as they have too little space and even less resources to deal with those problems (just ask the pickleball players).

The real point of comparisons are all about monthly costs. While you gloss over the tax differences between Grand and Sun City, they are significant. Then factor those monthly rec fee differences and it quickly covers the cost of the capital improvements in short order. And, to completely ignore the $3600 fee paid in Sun City as a cost, not a benefit is short sighted. The 100 million dollar reinvestment over the next 20 years will add to SC home owners property value and provide those buying here a better quality of life. .....

Challenge accepted but allow me to modify it a bit. First, thank you for your insights on this issue. I agree with your position on the quality of life issue. I've been a proponent of the original Sun City's efforts to update and improve facilities but more importantly to do so with cash on hand not debt. Kudos to management for this.

Mr. Gordon is absolutely correct by stating "...to completely ignore the....fee paid in Sun City as a cost, not a benefit....". In my post concerning this issue I did not balance the issue as a cost/benefit and that would be a mistake. I will say that anytime I consider cost I do consider benefit although I was amiss in not elaborating on that in my post.

As we consider a future home we ask ourselves how important is it to have numerous rec centers? Are we likely to use more than one or two? If not, why should we care there are 3 (or 7)? If the activities we pursue are available in 1 center why would we want to pay for the upkeep or expansion of more? What if we pursue no activities? A huge attraction to Sun City is the amenities. I think we're seeing the fruits of those investments in the number of "next gen" people moving in. I don't argue that value.

Concerning tax differences I agree with WG. We've paid very strict attention to the various tax rates. It was a major issue leading to our (so far) elimination of Pinal and Pima counties. Maricopa county is a shining star in this regard.

I specifically refer to WG's last paragraph above. This is an EXTREMELY valuable addition to the discussion and another reason this forum is such a fertile place for good information.