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East side for me. The area east of the 17 carries Maricopa County. Most business, most people, and most attractions in the Phoenix area are east of the 17. The west side of Phoenix is a huge slum. The area from 19th Avenue all the way until at least 83rd Avenue between Van Buren and Bethany Home is off limits. That is a huge chunk of the city. Add in Tolleson, parts of Laveen, parts of Avondale and Goodyear, parts of Buckeye, El Mirage, and all of the meth communities between Surprise and Wickenburg and it's easy to see why the east comes out on top. Aside from parts of AJ, Mesa, Guadalupe, and Chandler, the east side just feels safer. EV also lucked out in that it was largely developed before the recession. The west side is full of vacant lands for development plans that never materialized and still sit empty despite this supposed "growth."
Buckeye has an area of 392 square miles. Peoria has 178 square miles. Surprise 117, Goodyear and Litchfield Park around 92 square miles. Add in Sun City and Sun City West of around 25 square miles and this makes up the bulk of the West Valley. Your unsafe comments are downright ignorant unless you hang out in the wrong part of town. But I'm hedging my bet that you really don't get around much.
I am like the fact that people are not crammed into this massive area. I stay the Hell away from parts of Mesa, Guadalupe PHX, as well as the less than ideal areas of Glendale. But PHX area is much different than most areas because towns can cover a massive amount of area. You have 56 square miles of Glendale which is about the same size as Minneapolis. Ignorant people will put all areas in a city like Minneapolis in the same bucket. Not! Same same with Glendale. The range is from very nice to spots I would not want to travel at night. Same with Mesa. There are the extremely nice spots and poor areas in Mesa. You cannot paint an area with a broad brush unless you have your head in the sand.
If you don't feel save in about 800-900 square miles on the West side of town, I'm going label you as a wuss.
You apparently didn't view/skipped over the crime maps I posted up a few posts, showing all sorts of crime all around the valley pretty much distributed evenly throughout the valley, though it appears to me there's actually more crime "dots" appearing on the east side/central areas. Here they are again for you to view, just for you.
btw...."west side is full of vacant lands" doesn't cause much crime that I'm aware of. That occurs where the most people live which the data above shows.
Aside from your obvious bias, I'd be more interested in discussing the actual crime data as outlined in the sites above.
Forgot objective data. Let's stick to inaccurate perceptions.
I'll agree to a point, but you have to admit that Arrowhead and the Sun Cities are very nice established areas which don't exactly fit the description of "huge slum" or "meth communities".
Arrowhead and Sun City is not the west side of Phoenix or between Surprise and Wickenburg. There are plenty of nice communities in the West Valley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
You apparently didn't view/skipped over the crime maps I posted up a few posts, showing all sorts of crime all around the valley pretty much distributed evenly throughout the valley, though it appears to me there's actually more crime "dots" appearing on the east side/central areas. Here they are again for you to view, just for you.
btw...."west side is full of vacant lands" doesn't cause much crime that I'm aware of. That occurs where the most people live which the data above shows.
Aside from your obvious bias, I'd be more interested in discussing the actual crime data as outlined in the sites above.
Obviously there is going to be a greater concentration of icons where there is a greater concentration of people. It's funny that you highlight all the areas in the East Valley which I acknowledged were less desirable while ignoring the fact that Buckeye, Glendale and Peoria clearly don't participate in the RAIDS database and that El Mirage, west Phoenix, and old town Avondale/Goodyear are carpeted with dots.
I know your focus is on crime, which the west side has more than enough of. I'm focused on why the area east of the 17 carries the region economically, why Arrowhead is the only decent enclosed mall west of the 17, why chain restaurants always seem to open their first Arizona locations on the east side, and why despite the Super Bowl being hosted in Glendale, all the events were on the east side.
Why are people so passionate about geography? Glendale is the west sides Mesa and vice versa. I wouldn't live in Glendale or Mesa.
The west side has really come up into its own lately, I feel like it a little more spread out, but a lot of development is in the works.
There are nice low crime areas on each side. My parents live in El Mirage (has a bad rap) but their neighborhood and neighbors are great and it feels safe.
East valley has more high paying employment in my opinion, but if you work in Central Phoenix, the point is irrelevant.
The only negative think I dislike about the west side is driving in the winter, you are always driving into the sunset/sunrise if you commute to Phoenix. On the east side I am driving opposite of that.
Arrowhead and Sun City is not the west side of Phoenix or between Surprise and Wickenburg. There are plenty of nice communities in the West Valley.
Progress. By the way Arrowhead, Sun City, and "plenty of nice communities" are all in the West Valley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
Obviously there is going to be a greater concentration of icons where there is a greater concentration of people.
Not up for debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
I know your focus is on crime, which the west side has more than enough of.
You said you feel safer on the east side. He called your bluff. Steve lives in Goodyear. Extremely safe. I live in Surprise and it is (on paper) has even less crime. As in the 2nd safest city next to Gilbert. How and why you feel "safer" in your hood is questionable at best. Look at the stats for crime (which to me defines safety) and get ready to eat crow. Stay the heck out of the bad areas and hang out it the few hundred square miles of the safer than safe areas of the west valley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
..why Arrowhead is the only decent enclosed mall west of the 17, why chain restaurants always seem to open their first Arizona locations on the east side, and why despite the Super Bowl being hosted in Glendale, all the events were on the east side.
To me at least, enclosed malls are old school. Even where they were invented (Southdale in MN) they are a dying a slow death. I don't care about enclosed malls. I care about stores I want to shop at and all of them are online.
All things being equal, there is more to do in the East Valley. Got it. The words are being typed because you initially portrayed the entire West Valley as substandard. Now you are clarifying or backtracking. As I said, progress.
Great question. Because some people need to put others down (even when it isn't warranted) in order to justify that they are smarter, better, etc. In order to justify their point of view, they will even lie to themselves and actually believe it. So they ignore the stats, progress, and assume they have done their homework.
Obviously there is going to be a greater concentration of icons where there is a greater concentration of people.
Correct. I also pointed this out in my 1st post on this thread, page 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
Despite the mantra of west valley has more crime than east valley, I see more crime dots/markers in the east valley and Phoenix overall than the west valley. More population of course has something to do with that but if the argument is that west valley crime is higher than east valley, that is flat out wrong and nonsense. Data is your friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
It's funny that you highlight all the areas in the East Valley which I acknowledged were less desirable while ignoring the fact that Buckeye, Glendale and Peoria clearly don't participate in the RAIDS database and that El Mirage, west Phoenix, and old town Avondale/Goodyear are carpeted with dots.
I know your focus is on crime, which the west side has more than enough of. I'm focused on why the area east of the 17 carries the region economically, why Arrowhead is the only decent enclosed mall west of the 17, why chain restaurants always seem to open their first Arizona locations on the east side, and why despite the Super Bowl being hosted in Glendale, all the events were on the east side.
My intent wasn't humor. Nor was I focusing on anything other than to respond to what you were stating in your 1st post, especially that you stated "east side feels safer", which implies crime in my book. And I gave you crime maps to backup the point I was trying to make. As for the crime map, west Phoenix, including Maryvale, is including in the stats as is many other parts of the west valley. As for other crime maps that you keyed in on as missing from the main url I gave you, c'mon...take a little effort......they are out there for you. Again, I did a quick find for you on Buckeye:
Same thing.....just as much crime, if not more, on the east side/central Phoenix area. This is the main point I am illustrating to you and it's simply because I am responding to your post that is based on "feels". I'm trying to show you reality with actual data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
The west side of Phoenix is a huge slum. The area from 19th Avenue all the way until at least 83rd Avenue between Van Buren and Bethany Home is off limits. That is a huge chunk of the city. Add in Tolleson, parts of Laveen, parts of Avondale and Goodyear, parts of Buckeye, El Mirage, and all of the meth communities between Surprise and Wickenburg and it's easy to see why the east comes out on top. Aside from parts of AJ, Mesa, Guadalupe, and Chandler, the east side just feels safer. EV also lucked out in that it was largely developed before the recession. The west side is full of vacant lands for development plans that never materialized and still sit empty despite this supposed "growth."
Now that we have the crime map for Buckeye and Glendale for you, and Maryvale/the true west side of Phoenix which is very well represented in the main crime url I gave you, again, you will see just as much if not more crime in the central/east valley looking at all the maps side by side and together. If you choose to ignore this, you of course have that right and can believe whatever "feels safer" to you in spite of hard statistics/crime data, but the reality is, there is just as much if not more crime in the east and central Phoenix area as there is in the west valley. My eyes say there's more crime in the east valley/Phoenix area looking at the data on these maps....more/less population is not the issue.....the issue is how much crime exists and that's the bottom line. Again, you said "the east side just feels safer". The data shows your feel is not rational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
You said you feel safer on the east side. He called your bluff. Steve lives in Goodyear. Extremely safe. I live in Surprise and it is (on paper) has even less crime. As in the 2nd safest city next to Gilbert. How and why you feel "safer" in your hood is questionable at best. Look at the stats for crime (which to me defines safety) and get ready to eat crow. Stay the heck out of the bad areas and hang out it the few hundred square miles of the safer than safe areas of the west valley.
Spot on MN.....you got it...thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajonesaz
Why are people so passionate about geography?
You got me. Perhaps for some it's insecurity? Competitive people who have to be/think they have the "best"? Jealousy? Someone got a speeding ticket in the east or west valley, some driver gave them the finger? Some have an ex-spouse that lives in the east or west valley, bad breakup with a boy/girlfriend on either side of the valley? Seems much of this is based on emotion/non-sequitur belief systems with some, especially about the crime issue. It's entertaining in a way. On the positive, I found it all educational myself, looking at these crime maps around the valley.
East side for me. The area east of the 17 carries Maricopa County. Most business, most people, and most attractions in the Phoenix area are east of the 17. The west side of Phoenix is a huge slum. The area from 19th Avenue all the way until at least 83rd Avenue between Van Buren and Bethany Home is off limits. That is a huge chunk of the city. Add in Tolleson, parts of Laveen, parts of Avondale and Goodyear, parts of Buckeye, El Mirage, and all of the meth communities between Surprise and Wickenburg and it's easy to see why the east comes out on top. Aside from parts of AJ, Mesa, Guadalupe, and Chandler, the east side just feels safer. EV also lucked out in that it was largely developed before the recession. The west side is full of vacant lands for development plans that never materialized and still sit empty despite this supposed "growth."
Imho the only bad areas in the west valley are Maryvale and a few other parts of west Phoenix, southern part of Avondale, southern side of Glendale, and all of Tolleson.
But they are outshined by the many good suburban areas in the west valley such as northern Avondale, Goodyear, Litchfield Park, northern side of Glendale, and many other decent neighborhoods-developments on the northwest side.
The east valley has its ups and downs too, not all areas are family-friendly or free of crime.
Scottsdale is considered east valley but I think it's overrated, you can get the same kind of house, condominium, or apartment elsewhere for a lower price but pay through the nose in Scottsdale.
There is a certain stigma among people there, they tend to look down on other people or other parts of the valley which they consider beneath them.
There are nice and not so nice areas in all areas, east, west, north, and south, but the west valley is unfairly stereotyped by too many people like you who only seem to dwell on the few bad areas.
East side for me. The area east of the 17 carries Maricopa County. Most business, most people, and most attractions in the Phoenix area are east of the 17. The west side of Phoenix is a huge slum. The area from 19th Avenue all the way until at least 83rd Avenue between Van Buren and Bethany Home is off limits. That is a huge chunk of the city. Add in Tolleson, parts of Laveen, parts of Avondale and Goodyear, parts of Buckeye, El Mirage, and all of the meth communities between Surprise and Wickenburg and it's easy to see why the east comes out on top. Aside from parts of AJ, Mesa, Guadalupe, and Chandler, the east side just feels safer. EV also lucked out in that it was largely developed before the recession. The west side is full of vacant lands for development plans that never materialized and still sit empty despite this supposed "growth."
I'd agree with that. Ever watch the 10 o'clock news? Murders, rapes, robberies mostly on the west side.
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