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Unless they centralize things better, I say over 10 years, and perhaps never? Its difficult to say. I dont see people coming to the Valley and wanting to hit up a Dbacks game or Suns game, unless for some reason they are huge fans from out-of-state. The downtown area is just too spread out for most people, and not in a dense, good, NYC-like way.
This poll is not just talking visitors, but residents. Downtown spread out? I don't know what your definition of downtown is, but it must be different from mine.
Downtown is never going to be like NYC or similar cities, and it doesn't have to be. People really need to stop making those comparisons. But it's improved substantially in terms of entertainment and other "destination" options, and will continue to.
Unless they centralize things better, I say over 10 years, and perhaps never? Its difficult to say. I dont see people coming to the Valley and wanting to hit up a Dbacks game or Suns game, unless for some reason they are huge fans from out-of-state. The downtown area is just too spread out for most people, and not in a dense, good, NYC-like way.
What?? People come to the valley from out of town all the time and hit up games, concerts, live arts/music performances, have you been downtown lately? Seen Roosevelt Row? There's a massive influx of development occurring in a very walkable area.
Nobody is comparing Phoenix to New York City, but a little Portland vibe going on around RoRo would be awesome and it seems to be very much in action as we debate about it online right now.
But I'm a very factual person, so here's the numbers:
1. More than 20 apartment and condominium developments are going up across the city's core.
2. All the developments underway will mean more than 2,000 new housing units for downtown Phoenix
3. People are also willing to pay more to live downtown. The average rent in the area has jumped almost 50 percent during the past five years to $1,357, according to Phoenix-based ABI Multifamily.
4. 2014 Census data that showed 5,913 people living in downtown Phoenix. That means about 12,000 will call the area home in two years.
5. In the next 24 months, this area (downtown Phoenix) will double in size
The demand for downtown Phoenix is very much alive and well.
On the plus side, it is slowly becoming more liveable.
2015:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenon
But at least you have your AMC theater, right? Better fill-up on those $10 popcorns. It's a typical blow-in trait to go to AMC by the way...a theater chain that's available in EveryTown, USA.
2014:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenon
It's good to see an amc movie theatre down there now.
If it was good to see an AMC downtown when, after 24 years, you finally noticed it, why is it bad today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenon
Maybe next we can attract a Whole Foods to really put us on the map.
The latest Whole Foods valley location at 20th & Camelback opened more than 2 years ago next door to Trader Joe's.
The downtown area is apparently not unlivable, since there are thousands of people who live there, and thousands more coming in within a couple of years.
The absence of a grocery store within walking distance to the immediate downtown area hardly makes it less livable than the rest of the area, where most people don't walk for groceries either, unless they moved across the street from a grocery store. Nobody is suggesting that people move downtown, sell their cars, and try to live like they're in Manhattan. It's Phoenix.
This poll is not just talking visitors, but residents. Downtown spread out? I don't know what your definition of downtown is, but it must be different from mine.
For instance... we left the Dbacks game and wanted to go up to get some fish n chips at George & Dragon (its off Central), and we had to get back in the car and drive up there. Then that part of "downtown" is basically abandoned, theres nothing really there to do after dinner. Uptown isnt really a tourist hotspot in any sense of the word, unfortunately.
Want to see a concert? The Ak-Chin Pavillion is out in Maryvale.
A football or hockey game? The Cardinals stadium and Gila River arena are out by Westgate.
The metro's best bars and clubs are in Tempe and Scottsdale, as well as the best shopping malls.
There isn't even a grocery store downtown. The area is still unlivable. But at least you have your AMC theater, right? Better fill-up on those $10 popcorns. It's a typical blow-in trait to go to AMC by the way...a theater chain that's available in EveryTown, USA. Let's make Phoenix a clone of every other city. Maybe next we can attract a Whole Foods to really put us on the map. Harkins Theaters is a home-grown Phoenix institution and gives the city a unique character. It has been the pride of Phoenix for decades and has only recently expanded to a few location in other Western states like California and Texas. Local Arizona businesses will always get my support over the big national chains.
Ak-Chin Pavilion in Maryvale? Now there's a destination. Nothing much around there, either. And, you get to sit OUTSIDE. Not a great venue year round, and the acts that go there are not what they used to be in its early days under the original name. Talking Stick Resort Arena and Comerica Theatre are downtown, they get way bigger acts, the other big ones go to Gila River.
They do need a grocery store downtown, no doubt about it. It's a pity that the one that tried going in there wasn't just a regular chain store, but tried to be something other than what the area really needed. Hopefully that will come soon, as more residential is going in.
And can we stop with the "blow in" reference? Tourists/convention traffic are pretty important around here. Yes, people do often patronize the chains they are familiar with. A visitor staying downtown who wants to see a movie, or someone who works downtown meeting friends for a movie after work, is going to go to the AMC. Residents generally likely do favor Harkins. I've known Danny most of my life, so I do, too.
What?? People come to the valley from out of town all the time and hit up games, concerts, live arts/music performances, have you been downtown lately? Seen Roosevelt Row? There's a massive influx of development occurring in a very walkable area.
Nobody is comparing Phoenix to New York City, but a little Portland vibe going on around RoRo would be awesome and it seems to be very much in action as we debate about it online right now.
But I'm a very factual person, so here's the numbers:
1. More than 20 apartment and condominium developments are going up across the city's core.
2. All the developments underway will mean more than 2,000 new housing units for downtown Phoenix
3. People are also willing to pay more to live downtown. The average rent in the area has jumped almost 50 percent during the past five years to $1,357, according to Phoenix-based ABI Multifamily.
4. 2014 Census data that showed 5,913 people living in downtown Phoenix. That means about 12,000 will call the area home in two years.
5. In the next 24 months, this area (downtown Phoenix) will double in size
The demand for downtown Phoenix is very much alive and well.
I practically work downtown (Im just north), so Im down there all the time. I know about the developments, I see them sprouting up. But downtown PHX isnt really known for being a big tourist attraction, as I stated above. Its growing nicely, but it still isnt a huge draw. When I have guests in town, I take them there, and since we're spur-of-the-moment type people, I usually have them point out something that looks interesting, and then we'll stop if they want. Noone has wanted to stop yet. hahaha Its kind of embarrassing. But when we get to Cave Creek or Old Town Scottsdale or Tempe, everyone wants to get out and look around.
For instance... we left the Dbacks game and wanted to go up to get some fish n chips at George & Dragon (its off Central), and we had to get back in the car and drive up there. Then that part of "downtown" is basically abandoned, theres nothing really there to do after dinner. Uptown isnt really a tourist hotspot in any sense of the word, unfortunately.
Most definitions of downtown have the northern border at either Roosevelt, I-10 or McDowell. The George and Dragon is a couple of miles north of there. You chose to skip past a boatload of restaurants that actually are downtown and within walking distance. You didn't have to get back in the car, though, light rail from downtown to the George and Dragon is easy.
I practically work downtown (Im just north), so Im down there all the time. I know about the developments, I see them sprouting up. But downtown PHX isnt really known for being a big tourist attraction, as I stated above. Its growing nicely, but it still isnt a huge draw. When I have guests in town, I take them there, and since we're spur-of-the-moment type people, I usually have them point out something that looks interesting, and then we'll stop if they want. Noone has wanted to stop yet. hahaha Its kind of embarrassing. But when we get to Cave Creek or Old Town Scottsdale or Tempe, everyone wants to get out and look around.
I see. It's only taken a few minutes for most of my visitors to want to stop in at Desoto, Matt's or where Paz Cantina was until recently. From there we've tended to wander off in different directions typically checking out some of the many art galleries in the area and/or one of the live music venues down there, Crescent Ballroom is probably my favorite spot for music in the valley but Valley Bar, Lost Leaf and The Nash if you like Jazz are also great. We also find ourselves heading to the cityscape area quite a bit, I like the rooftop bar at Lusture and since we like comedy we do tend to visit standup live with some regularity, including with multiple friends from out of town lately. Also a big fan of happy hour at compass room.
But I guess everyone has their own thing they like. We live in Tempe and frequent Mill for dining and entertainment, but I find as much to do downtown and we regularly take the train down there for events.
Most definitions of downtown have the northern border at either Roosevelt, I-10 or McDowell. The George and Dragon is a couple of miles north of there. You chose to skip past a boatload of restaurants that actually are downtown and within walking distance. You didn't have to get back in the car, though, light rail from downtown to the George and Dragon is easy.
We were recommended G&D so we went there. It was good, dont get me wrong, but there just isnt anything to do around that area, so we headed back to their place. The restaurants around Chase Field were beyond crowded, btw. Im glad we chose G&D, Id go back again. As for the light rail, I wouldnt want to pay to ride just a few blocks north, when we were already raped by the parking garage prices (the one just north of Chase Field on Jefferson).
I see. It's only taken a few minutes for most of my visitors to want to stop in at Desoto, Matt's or where Paz Cantina was until recently. From there we've tended to wander off in different directions typically checking out some of the many art galleries in the area and/or one of the live music venues down there, Crescent Ballroom is probably my favorite spot for music in the valley but Valley Bar, Lost Leaf and The Nash if you like Jazz are also great. We also find ourselves heading to the cityscape area quite a bit, I like the rooftop bar at Lusture and since we like comedy we do tend to visit standup live with some regularity, including with multiple friends from out of town lately. Also a big fan of happy hour at compass room.
But I guess everyone has their own thing they like. We live in Tempe and frequent Mill for dining and entertainment, but I find as much to do downtown and we regularly take the train down there for events.
Ive never been to any of the establishments you've mentioned, Ill have to keep those in mind as recommendations the next time we have guests staying with us.
If people want art galleries, I always end up in Old Town, of course. The Thursday night Art Walk is always a fave with our guests. I wouldnt recommend going downtown for art, when all the high end galleries are located right next to each other in Old Town. Besides Santa Fe, I think Scottsdale has the best centralized arts district in the country.
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