Where would you put a third commercial airport in the Phoenix area?

[ScottsdaleMark]

Originally Posted by SluggoF16

Somehow my earlier post was cut off. The completed form:

Thank you Sluggo for all that great info on some more of the issues related to KSDL. Always cool to hear personal info or recollections that I haven't heard before.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

With the proposed JetPurple flights out of Scottsdale (despite commercial aviation not currently being allowed there due to noise complaints), I wonder, where would you put a third commercial airport in the Phoenix area?


My choice I think would be GEU in Glendale, followed by GYR in Goodyear. The East Valley already has AZA, so I would think it would make sense to have a commercial airport in the West Valley. Another option could be to make Luke AFB a joint civil-military airport.

There isn't a need for a third commercial airport, and there won't be for a long time to come. Sky Harbor is continuing to expand, and Mesa Gateway has become the second commercial airport only recently. If anything, the focus should continue to be expanding and/or improving both major airports. If there ever is a proposal for a third commercial airport in the future, I hope the location for it isn't between Phoenix and Tucson (as some have suggested). Putting a major airport out in the middle of the desert would be absurd and pointless.

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

There isn't a need for a third commercial airport, and there won't be for a long time to come. Sky Harbor is continuing to expand, and Mesa Gateway has become the second commercial airport only recently. If anything, the focus should continue to be expanding and/or improving both major airports. If there ever is a proposal for a third commercial airport in the future, I hope the location for it isn't between Phoenix and Tucson (as some have suggested). Putting a major airport out in the middle of the desert would be absurd and pointless.

Definitely. Look at Miami-Dade-Collier, which was planned to be a 6-runway beast but ended up with only one runway due in part to its isolation in the Everglades which raised environmental concerns. Or Scott AFB/Mid-America east of St. Louis, with a few Allegiant flights a week to Florida and Vegas. A nice big shiny new terminal visible from I-64 as you drive by, empty.

Goodyear (GYR) has the same issue as Scottsdale, no precision instrument approaches. Setting up an instrument landing system approach would require a significant amount of airspace that would impinge on the PHX and LUF airspace. It DOES have load-bearing capacity, 270,000 lbs, good enough for 737s and A320s, room for growth as well. However, compare with other similar metropolitan areas, and the utility of another airport is limited, especially if PHX opens gates and capacity as American pulls back service.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

There isn't a need for a third commercial airport, and there won't be for a long time to come. Sky Harbor is continuing to expand, and Mesa Gateway has become the second commercial airport only recently. If anything, the focus should continue to be expanding and/or improving both major airports. If there ever is a proposal for a third commercial airport in the future, I hope the location for it isn't between Phoenix and Tucson (as some have suggested). Putting a major airport out in the middle of the desert would be absurd and pointless.

I agree with you, Valley. The Gateway Mesa airport can handle the overflow from Sky Harbor if, or when, it reaches capacity. The west valley residents will just have to drive a bit, that's all.

[ScottsdaleMark]

Originally Posted by SluggoF16

Definitely. Look at Miami-Dade-Collier, which was planned to be a 6-runway beast but ended up with only one runway due in part to its isolation in the Everglades which raised environmental concerns. Or Scott AFB/Mid-America east of St. Louis, with a few Allegiant flights a week to Florida and Vegas. A nice big shiny new terminal visible from I-64 as you drive by, empty.

Goodyear (GYR) has the same issue as Scottsdale, no precision instrument approaches. Setting up an instrument landing system approach would require a significant amount of airspace that would impinge on the PHX and LUF airspace. It DOES have load-bearing capacity, 270,000 lbs, good enough for 737s and A320s, room for growth as well. However, compare with other similar metropolitan areas, and the utility of another airport is limited, especially if PHX opens gates and capacity as American pulls back service.

Thanks for another good post, I learned a lot once again.

Are there any airports in the Valley that do have precision instrument approaches other than Sky Harbor and Gateway? I assume it's much more expensive.

Also, are there any that are VFR-only? From what I can tell most of them seem to be non-precision instrument approaches.

It's been a long time since I took ground school so I don't remember too much these days it seems. I never got my license or anything, I just took ground school as an elective in school because I was interested. I do dream of maybe getting my license once my kids are grown or I retire, because I have always loved aviation.

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

Thanks for another good post, I learned a lot once again.

Are there any airports in the Valley that do have precision instrument approaches other than Sky Harbor and Gateway? I assume it's much more expensive.

Also, are there any that are VFR-only? From what I can tell most of them seem to be non-precision instrument approaches.

It's been a long time since I took ground school so I don't remember too much these days it seems. I never got my license or anything, I just took ground school as an elective in school because I was interested. I do dream of maybe getting my license once my kids are grown or I retire, because I have always loved aviation.

Only two; Luke AFB and, believe it or not, Casa Grande (CZG). Yeah, I was amazed too. It must be for the training that goes on down there.

Buckeye, Ak Chin and Carefree (the latter of which is now private) have no approaches. Everyone else has GPS or VOR. When I was a private pilot in The Valley only Scottsdale and Stellar Airpark had VOR approaches, both circling non-precision, and Falcon was just getting an NDB. I was surprised to arrive at Luke in the 90s and see that the old Glendale airport at Olive and Grand was gone, replaced by the new one.

BTW, did you take ground school in high school? If so, in Scottsdale?

[DougStark]

Re: airports in the US, I suspect pilots love flying into and out of Phoenix, Tucson and Las Vegas because they're all usually cloud free, no fog, and no snow or ice.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by DougStark

Re: airports in the US, I suspect pilots love flying into and out of Phoenix, Tucson and Las Vegas because they're all usually cloud free, no fog, and no snow or ice.

One of my clients is a pilot, he tells me that finding Phoenix is easy. It's the big brown haze in the middle of the desert

[ScottsdaleMark]

Originally Posted by SluggoF16

Only two; Luke AFB and, believe it or not, Casa Grande (CZG). Yeah, I was amazed too. It must be for the training that goes on down there.

Buckeye, Ak Chin and Carefree (the latter of which is now private) have no approaches. Everyone else has GPS or VOR. When I was a private pilot in The Valley only Scottsdale and Stellar Airpark had VOR approaches, both circling non-precision, and Falcon was just getting an NDB. I was surprised to arrive at Luke in the 90s and see that the old Glendale airport at Olive and Grand was gone, replaced by the new one.

BTW, did you take ground school in high school? If so, in Scottsdale?

I did take it in high school! The course was called Aeronautics. I went to high school in Illinois, the teacher of the class was a private pilot and I did get to go up in his plane one time. It was a lot of fun.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by SluggoF16

Definitely. Look at Miami-Dade-Collier, which was planned to be a 6-runway beast but ended up with only one runway due in part to its isolation in the Everglades which raised environmental concerns. Or Scott AFB/Mid-America east of St. Louis, with a few Allegiant flights a week to Florida and Vegas. A nice big shiny new terminal visible from I-64 as you drive by, empty.

Goodyear (GYR) has the same issue as Scottsdale, no precision instrument approaches. Setting up an instrument landing system approach would require a significant amount of airspace that would impinge on the PHX and LUF airspace. It DOES have load-bearing capacity, 270,000 lbs, good enough for 737s and A320s, room for growth as well. However, compare with other similar metropolitan areas, and the utility of another airport is limited, especially if PHX opens gates and capacity as American pulls back service.

Goodyear also accommodates 747s. I see them fly over my house and there are several parked there in various states of repair. I certainly would be against GYR becoming a commercial airport though. Let Tempe have the noise.