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You're correct that office towers alone don't energize the urban core ... however, they do other positive things for the city: namely bring higher paying, competitive corporate jobs to the urban core, and also enhance the skyline. Large corporations also sponsor numerous charitable drives that help their communities. Also, when businesses are downtown, that tends to encourage residents to live closer to their jobs (especially now that there's more of a demand for centralized living). It wasn't so much this way 20 or 30 years ago when most everybody wanted to live in the suburbs.
And that is my point. Your argument all along has been that in order to have a lively, entertaining, and sustainable downtown is to have a large corporate presence with tall skyscrapers. And that is not the case currently. Thousands of residents are already moving in to the core WITHOUT tall buildings in the skyline. Charitable contributions? Now you're just reaching and does nothing for a 24/7 downtown.
He's really not that far off. San Jose is somewhat similar to Phoenix in layout and density. It was originally a distant San Francisco suburb that grew outward and eventually became a big city on its own due the location, and of course the high tech industry. It's now the 10th largest city in the nation, but it really doesn't look or act like it mostly because it's overshadowed by San Francisco where most of the financial business and tourism are. Overall, Phoenix has a better downtown/central core area and more big city amenities than San Jose, but it still has much more in common with San Jose than San Francisco (which is unique in itself).
Are you joking? Phoenix has better downtown than SJ? So, Downtown SJ is a complete failure and totally dead since Downtown Phoenix is dead with Scottsdale as boss?
Go and visit Downtown SJ, and you'll give up ever rooting for Downtown Phoenix because it's so much better and far ahead than Downtown Phoenix. It could be a life changing experience for you since you'll find another city to root for because you'll have given up Phoenix after seeing how awesome Downtown SJ is.
For you info: San Jose is far more dense and much more infilled than Phoenix, period. San Jose has a world class vibrant downtown core that is active and stays lively through the nights. San Jose is the wrong city to compare to and mess with.
Downtown SJ's San Pedro Square and SoFA are booming like crazy with a public market food halls/ entertainment, huge beer gastropub and good live music joints. Downtown Phoenix has a long way to go before it ever catches up with Downtown SJ. It should follow Downtown SJ examples: over 12,000 housing units have been built in the greater downtown area with around 300 restaurants and over 40 live music places. It has over 140 small start up tech companies with Adobe and Oracle being the big and established companies downtown. It's office buildings are clustered in one area to form lunch rush daily to restaurants in the area. San Jose St. is already firmly established downtown with tons of student walking and hanging out downtown. If Downtown Phoenix follows San Jose's example, maybe about 30 years, it'll be like Downtown SJ.
I know better than to feed the troll but I can't resist
Just by reviewing your past posts, you seem to have a hard-on for "Man Jose" and an inferiority complex to your big brother north of you in SF. I'm sorry but San Jose and "world class city" do not belong in the same sentence. I have lived in the Bay Area specifically in Emeryville and I would rather go to Oakland than San Jose. For all your reasons that you just gave about SJ being a "world class city", guess what? Those same exact same things are occurring in downtown Phoenix LOL and we actually have a world class institution in Arizona State University having a presence downtown. Each his own I guess...
Last edited by AZSunDevil83; 01-19-2017 at 10:30 AM..
I know better than to feed the troll but I can't resist
Just by reviewing your past posts, you seem to have a hard-on for "Man Jose" and an inferiority complex to your big brother north of you in SF. I'm sorry but San Jose and "world class city" do not belong in the same sentence. I have lived in the Bay Area specifically in Emeryville and I would rather go to Oakland than San Jose. For all your reasons that you just gave about SJ being a "world class city", guess what? Those same exact same things are occurring in downtown Phoenix LOL and we actually have a world class institution in Arizona State University having a presence downtown. Each his own I guess...
No public market, Tech Museum and a smaller and university will not do justice in Downtown Phoenix. Tempe is still the boss for night life while Downtown SJ is the boss for nightlife. You can't compare this downtown to San Jose's since you only lived in Emeryville. What the heck you know about San Jose?
No public market, Tech Museum and a smaller and university will not do justice in Downtown Phoenix. Tempe is still the boss for night life while Downtown SJ is the boss for nightlife. You can't compare this downtown to San Jose's since you only lived in Emeryville. What the heck you know about San Jose?
Of course I have been there, that's why i didn't go back after. It didn't help that none of my SF friends would ever set foot in SJ either.
And do you know why they call SJ, Man Jose? Cause the "boss night life" sucked and it's full of dudes (unless of course that's your thing). And yes please let's stop talking about the non-sense that is San Jose. As Phoenicians, we have bigger aspirations
And that is my point. Your argument all along has been that in order to have a lively, entertaining, and sustainable downtown is to have a large corporate presence with tall skyscrapers. And that is not the case currently. Thousands of residents are already moving in to the core WITHOUT tall buildings in the skyline. Charitable contributions? Now you're just reaching and does nothing for a 24/7 downtown.
I never said that big corporations & tall skyscrapers are the only things that establish a lively downtown ... however, they are noticeably absent from Phoenix's urban core compared to other cities our size. The skyline is one of the first things people notice about a city. A tall skyline enhances a city's image and implies success. Yes, the downtown area is denser and more residents are moving in, which is a good sign, but if you think that a cluster of low or midrise buildings is making downtown Phoenix a prosperous, magnificent place then you're badly mistaken. Those kinds of buildings are more suited for small cities like Boise, Spokane, Fresno, or Colorado Springs ... not the nation's sixth largest city.
You seem to balk at corporations, but they do contribute to their communities in a positive way. They sponsor numerous charity drives throughout the year, such as blood drives, March of Dimes, United Way, Humane Society, Toys For Tots, Susan G. Komen, etc., etc. Some corporations have donated money to cities like Detroit for the purpose of rebuilding their poor inner city neighborhoods. I'd much rather have private enterprise be involved in these things than the government swiping away our tax dollars! Maybe if you actually worked at a large corporation (or at least did some research), you'd be aware of the good things they do for cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the topper
Are you joking? Phoenix has better downtown than SJ? So, Downtown SJ is a complete failure and totally dead since Downtown Phoenix is dead with Scottsdale as boss?
Go and visit Downtown SJ, and you'll give up ever rooting for Downtown Phoenix because it's so much better and far ahead than Downtown Phoenix. It could be a life changing experience for you since you'll find another city to root for because you'll have given up Phoenix after seeing how awesome Downtown SJ is.
For you info: San Jose is far more dense and much more infilled than Phoenix, period. San Jose has a world class vibrant downtown core that is active and stays lively through the nights. San Jose is the wrong city to compare to and mess with.
I have been to San Jose and it's a nice city, but the downtown area is medicore at best ... hardly anything close to world class! Sadly, it will always be in the shadow of San Francisco, which is where the vast majority of the corporations and tourism in the Bay Area are located. San Jose might be the largest populated city in the area, but it still takes a back seat to SF. If you love San Jose so much, spread your love for it in the San Jose forum. This is the PHOENIX forum, which isn't the place to be discussing the "amenities" of San Jose.
I never said that big corporations & tall skyscrapers are the only things that establish a lively downtown ... however, they are noticeably absent from Phoenix's urban core compared to other cities our size. The skyline is one of the first things people notice about a city. A tall skyline enhances a city's image and implies success. Yes, the downtown area is denser and more residents are moving in, which is a good sign, but if you think that a cluster of low or midrise buildings is making downtown Phoenix a prosperous, magnificent place then you're badly mistaken. Those kinds of buildings are more suited for small cities like Boise, Spokane, Fresno, or Colorado Springs ... not the nation's sixth largest city.
You seem to balk at corporations, but they do contribute to their communities in a positive way. They sponsor numerous charity drives throughout the year, such as blood drives, March of Dimes, United Way, Humane Society, Toys For Tots, Susan G. Komen, etc., etc. Some corporations have donated money to cities like Detroit for the purpose of rebuilding their poor inner city neighborhoods. I'd much rather have private enterprise be involved in these things than the government swiping away our tax dollars! Maybe if you actually worked at a large corporation (or at least did some research), you'd be aware of the good things they do for cities.
Seriously...you're handing out personal attacks now? For your information, I have over 10 years in Information Security experience working for 3 of the largest financial institutions in the valley and supposedly I've "never worked at a large corporation"? Please get off your high horse and keep your idiotic comments to yourself. The reason I was laughing at your comment is because you are getting side tracked off the issue and alluding to "charitable contributions" and how they contribute to an lively downtown experience with an amazing night life. I'll just stop right there
Again - if you were to go back and actually read my posts and viewpoint, I am arguing that a large corporate presence is NOT needed to achieve an entertaining downtown experience. It's the retail, small businesses, coffee shops, bars, the artistic community and restaurants that are catering to the permanent residential population and not the 9-5 work audience. To reinforce my position even more, I even said that corporations will hopefully see the demand for moving jobs back into downtown once they realize the massive migration of the population back to the urban core.
If you want more evidence, just look at the recent revitalization of the downtown LA area. Yeah, it's always had the skyline, strong corporate presence and large economic engine, and guess what? Downtown was dirty, Skid Row was a malfeasance, and everyone was in a hurry to leave after 5p (much like Phoenix). And now it's thriving again and night life is fun there again. I wonder why? I understand that reading comprehension is not your strongest suit so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I know better than to feed the troll but I can't resist
Just by reviewing your past posts, you seem to have a hard-on for "Man Jose" and an inferiority complex to your big brother north of you in SF. I'm sorry but San Jose and "world class city" do not belong in the same sentence. I have lived in the Bay Area specifically in Emeryville and I would rather go to Oakland than San Jose. For all your reasons that you just gave about SJ being a "world class city", guess what? Those same exact same things are occurring in downtown Phoenix LOL and we actually have a world class institution in Arizona State University having a presence downtown. Each his own I guess...
ASU is far from world class. It is a state school that cranks out grads to fill many of the professional jobs in the Phoenix area. Before I'm accused of being biased, I am not a grad of U of A either. Downtown San Jose and Downtown Phoenix are similar, except for the fact that DT San Jose actually has a number of historic buildings that still stand along with actual pedestrian activity. Nevermind that San Jose is actually connected to a world class metropolitan area that puts Phoenix to shame.
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