Phoenix Sky Harbor drops to eleventh busiest airport. (Tempe: credit, hotel)

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

OK, let me rephrase: overseas international flights. Flying to Canada or Mexico is great and all, but what if we want to fly somewhere exotic like Egypt? Or Greece?

Airlines are a business. It's all supply and demand and what's the most cost efficient.

If there is not enough demand to have flights to Cairo on a daily basis, it is most cost effective to transfer those who want to fly there from other airports to a hub that flies there.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by ElleTea

Airlines are a business. It's all supply and demand and what's the most cost efficient.

If there is not enough demand to have flights to Cairo on a daily basis, it is most cost effective to transfer those who want to fly there from other airports to a hub that flies there.

Of all people, I would know this the most, perhaps. I'm in the business and a big avgeek. I was just responding to someone who said PHX needs to have more international flights, and asked why we don't have more.


To anyone who looks at a map, they would realize why PHX doesn't get a lot of international flights. Plain and simple: our location. They fly to LAX or SF. No sense in spending the extra time and fuel to fly to PHX instead. Someone also mentioned Charlotte and Las Vegas passed us as "shameful". Why? Charlotte is growing like a weed and is on the coast, and Vegas is a worldwide tourist destination. Compared to a lot of other larger airports, our airline selection is also small. This is no fault of Sky Harbor, but rather the airlines who just don't see fit to fly here, especially with San Diego and LA and San Fran relatively close by.

[iNviNciBL3]

Seattle is booming, the went up two spots knocking PHX down one spot.. Phoenix isnt doing anything wrong its just that Seattle is just doing so great... and throw in some American airlines drama on top of that.

[AZLiam]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

Seattle is booming, the went up two spots knocking PHX down one spot.. Phoenix isnt doing anything wrong its just that Seattle is just doing so great... and throw in some American airlines drama on top of that.

Right. Let's also add that Sea-Tac is also the main hub for Alaska Airlines/Horizon Air and is a hub and international gateway to Asia and Europe for Delta.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

To anyone who looks at a map, they would realize why PHX doesn't get a lot of international flights. Plain and simple: our location. They fly to LAX or SF. No sense in spending the extra time and fuel to fly to PHX instead. Someone also mentioned Charlotte and Las Vegas passed us as "shameful". Why? Charlotte is growing like a weed and is on the coast, and Vegas is a worldwide tourist destination. Compared to a lot of other larger airports, our airline selection is also small. This is no fault of Sky Harbor, but rather the airlines who just don't see fit to fly here, especially with San Diego and LA and San Fran relatively close by.

I would be more likely to agree with this except for the fact that Sky Harbor always made the list of the top 10 busiest airports until now. The excuse about our location being so close to LAX, etc. would have held true for the last 25+ years, even with the presence of America West/US Airways. Again, if Sky Harbor was a true national/international hub, the decrease in AA flights shouldn't have impacted the rankings that much.

Charlotte might be fast growing, but the numbers indicate Phoenix is growing even faster (besides being a much larger city/metro region). Vegas might be a big tourist destination, but there was a time not so long ago when Sky Harbor outranked McCarran in number of passengers. Obviously Charlotte, Vegas, etc. are doing something we're not. I still say that if Phoenix was more business oriented and had more large corporate HQs, Sky Harbor would likely rank higher in the passenger count, and perhaps even have more overseas flights. The fact that we lack in the corporate world affects lots of things, including how busy the main airport is.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

Seattle is booming, the went up two spots knocking PHX down one spot.. Phoenix isnt doing anything wrong its just that Seattle is just doing so great... and throw in some American airlines drama on top of that.

Gateway is booming, which takes traffic from Sky Harbor - add that almost 2 million back in and we exceed Seattle still (for 2016)

Gateway starting offering international flights to Canada, which put a big hit on Sky Harbor.

Why do we care about airport traffice anyways? People taking connecting flights almost does nothing for our economy - just adds pollution?

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I would be more likely to agree with this except for the fact that Sky Harbor always made the list of the top 10 busiest airports until now. The excuse about our location being so close to LAX, etc. would have held true for the last 25+ years, even with the presence of America West/US Airways. Again, if Sky Harbor was a true national/international hub, the decrease in AA flights shouldn't have impacted the rankings that much.

Charlotte might be fast growing, but the numbers indicate Phoenix is growing even faster (besides being a much larger city/metro region). Vegas might be a big tourist destination, but there was a time not so long ago when Sky Harbor outranked McCarran in number of passengers. Obviously Charlotte, Vegas, etc. are doing something we're not. I still say that if Phoenix was more business oriented and had more large corporate HQs, Sky Harbor would likely rank higher in the passenger count, and perhaps even have more overseas flights. The fact that we lack in the corporate world affects lots of things, including how busy the main airport is.

I am strictly talking about international flights. A flight from Hong Kong isn't going to come to PHX when LAX is closer. They'll deplane in LAX and they'll take connecting flights. Theres no rhyme or reason for, say, Cathay Pacific to fly directly to Sky Harbor. See what I'm saying?

[AZLiam]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I would be more likely to agree with this except for the fact that Sky Harbor always made the list of the top 10 busiest airports until now. The excuse about our location being so close to LAX, etc. would have held true for the last 25+ years, even with the presence of America West/US Airways. Again, if Sky Harbor was a true national/international hub, the decrease in AA flights shouldn't have impacted the rankings that much.

Charlotte might be fast growing, but the numbers indicate Phoenix is growing even faster (besides being a much larger city/metro region). Vegas might be a big tourist destination, but there was a time not so long ago when Sky Harbor outranked McCarran in number of passengers. Obviously Charlotte, Vegas, etc. are doing something we're not. I still say that if Phoenix was more business oriented and had more large corporate HQs, Sky Harbor would likely rank higher in the passenger count, and perhaps even have more overseas flights. The fact that we lack in the corporate world affects lots of things, including how busy the main airport is.

That is not true. The airport was actually #11 (in US) by passenger traffic as recently as 2015, 2014, 2013.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I am strictly talking about international flights. A flight from Hong Kong isn't going to come to PHX when LAX is closer. They'll deplane in LAX and they'll take connecting flights. Theres no rhyme or reason for, say, Cathay Pacific to fly directly to Sky Harbor. See what I'm saying?

What I've seen in the past in other airports big and small across the US is that airlines will conduct studies to see if it is viable to add a direct flight instead of routing it through a hub. They will see how many people each day are flying to destination X from destination Y, which is currently routed through destination Z, and if there's enough market/people to fill a larger plane from X sometimes an airline will add a direct flight from X to Y.

More often than not, I do tend to see city/counties/states throw money at airlines to help subsidize those direct international flights for a year or two, but once that subsidy is removed then so is the direct flight. Maybe if some large Japanese/Chinese companies base their US operations in Phoenix, then I can see the demand for direct flights to those places increasing and who knows maybe an airline out there will take a chance, but until then be ready to be routed though LAX or SFO or SEA.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

Gateway is booming, which takes traffic from Sky Harbor - add that almost 2 million back in and we exceed Seattle still (for 2016)

Gateway starting offering international flights to Canada, which put a big hit on Sky Harbor.

Why do we care about airport traffice anyways? People taking connecting flights almost does nothing for our economy - just adds pollution?

You obviously are not in the airline or travel business.

Airport traffic benefits local economies in many ways. People who have extended layovers spend money by staying at nearby hotels and dining at nearby restaurants.

Public transportation, cabs, and ride sharing services are profitable when people make a certain city the prime destination or have layovers there.

Having a major airline based in a particular city or MSA not only increases airport passenger numbers but provides jobs which benefits the economy.