Why don't trains come in to Phoenix?

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Amtrak is unnecessary. First of all, it's funded by the federal government, and it should be an entirely private entity. Second, it's one of the least popular methods of travel compared to plane or private car. Maybe traveling by standard train was the way to go in the first half of the 20th Century, but we have much better methods of transport these days.

If we're going to keep rail service as a means of travel, it definitely should be faster and upgraded. I'm in favor of high speed bullet trains, but I'd rather see them funded on a state level, or better yet a private level. I personally don't know anybody (here or anywhere else) who uses Amtrak, but I do know people who would travel by train if it was high speed and served a real purpose.

Amtrak is a necessary alternative, and the government funds it for that reason. Just because Phoenix can't sustain service doesn't mean other places don't need alternatives. You really need to get your head out of the sand on some of these issues. Train travel is quite popular on routes that don't involve Arizona, and yes, those areas are part of the United States and include tax payers that don't include you. That could be hard for you to fathom considering Arizona is one of those states that takes more in federal tax dollars than it puts back in, though you still can't see any "benefits" of living here.

Also, you want these high-speed trains, but don't want to pay for what comes with the upgrade. Interesting. I have used Amtrak before, and would gladly use that service again... but I don't want to go all the way to Maricopa to take a train because Phoenix can't maintain a route (and fun fact, is the largest US city to be unable to do so).

I think there's a reason Amtrak doesn't service Phoenix, and that Phoenix isn't clamoring to get Amtrak service back. If this town doesn't want to make any sort of alternative feasible, then it's not going to get more transportation alternatives (even your speculative high-speed rail). If the money and demand aren't there, then there's no reason to put any focus on Phoenix.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Amtrak is a necessary alternative, and the government funds it for that reason. Just because Phoenix can't sustain service doesn't mean other places don't need alternatives. You really need to get your head out of the sand on some of these issues. Train travel is quite popular on routes that don't involve Arizona, and yes, those areas are part of the United States and include tax payers that don't include you. That could be hard for you to fathom considering Arizona is one of those states that takes more in federal tax dollars than it puts back in, though you still can't see any "benefits" of living here.

Also, you want these high-speed trains, but don't want to pay for what comes with the upgrade. Interesting. I have used Amtrak before, and would gladly use that service again... but I don't want to go all the way to Maricopa to take a train because Phoenix can't maintain a route (and fun fact, is the largest US city to be unable to do so).

I think there's a reason Amtrak doesn't service Phoenix, and that Phoenix isn't clamoring to get Amtrak service back. If this town doesn't want to make any sort of alternative feasible, then it's not going to get more transportation alternatives (even your speculative high-speed rail). If the money and demand aren't there, then there's no reason to put any focus on Phoenix.

I already stated why Phoenix lost direct service. Prior to 1996, we were using now defunct Southern Pacific's tracks. But in January of 96, Union Pacific bought Southern Pacific, and wanted to run more freight down the former Southern Pacific tracks, which butted out Amtrak

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I already stated why Phoenix lost direct service. Prior to 1996, we were using now defunct Southern Pacific's tracks. But in January of 96, Union Pacific bought Southern Pacific, and wanted to run more freight down the former Southern Pacific tracks, which butted out Amtrak

So? You explained why it's not here now, but did not explain why it's not coming. It would be a matter of negotiation and/or putting in new tracks to accommodate Amtrak. It's not happening because the demand isn't there.

Think of cities that share tracks with railroad companies to allow commuter rail. Railroad companies are usually pretty willing to work with local governments on that, but Valley cities won't get on board with it, even though that's more practical for long distance commuting (not to mention faster and much cheaper) than building more light rail lines. In this case, local governments don't seem to be willing to make this happen. And also consider the lack of more international flights from Sky Harbor. Oddly Phoenix seems to be actually trying to make that happen, but airlines are reluctant to dedicate a plane to a new route, plus have the burden of start-up and operational expenses if they feel they can't make a profit off that route. Phoenix once had flights to Germany, Jamaica and Japan, but could not sustain them. In this case, it's the lack of demand.

Conditions aren't really right to get rail service back in Phoenix.

[azdr0710]

back to the OP's original question of why Denver and Albuquerque have passenger service and Phx does not.....

a primary reason is that Phx was NEVER on a main line track and the other two cities always were.....also, there just isn't the necessary demand and Phx is too "out of the way" (not on the main line).....the goal at the time of original SP construction (1880) was to get to California from the east on the shortest, all-weather route, not get to a farm town with 1700 people (Phx)

[KurtAZ]

I still want to know why the Government hasn't subsidized my Covered Wagon Revitalization Program.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

That could be hard for you to fathom considering Arizona is one of those states that takes more in federal tax dollars than it puts back in, though you still can't see any "benefits" of living here.

That disparity will increase with the "tax reform" coming down the pike, where it appears that state and local taxes will no longer be deductible.

[wilberry]

nice rail road map ..very cool