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"Because of this, the city is required by the EPA to sell a cleaner-burning fuel, which happens to be more expensive. Tucson, on the other hand, doesn’t suffer the same pollution problems as Phoenix, and as a result is allowed to sell the cheapest (and dirtiest) gasoline on the market. Mixing this fuel with government-subsidized ethanol helps to further lower the price of gasoline in the city."
"Tucson is connected to some main petroleum artery that crisscrosses the United States, ( kinder morgan -EPNG ) THERE IS A REFINERY IN EL PASO, The two cities are served by the same pipeline and have sufficient holding tanks to keep demand under control. "
Your argument sounds good, like piping Mississippi River water to the desert...but on paper not so much.
Refineries take 5-7 years to come on line, can cost upwards to $15B, and are designed to process 250-500K bbls per day. AZ produces <1M bbls annually. Even if AZ doubled output, the refinery would be out of AZ crude oil in a week. (link) So...crude would have to be pumped in from crude oil producing/importing states like CA and TX (new pipelines). Would pumping crude oil from CA/TX vs refined oil/gas make an economic difference to AZ residents ?
Would it make more sense to partner with MX to build a refinery in Sonora on the Gulf to take advantage of tanker supplied crude from the middle east? My opinion.....if it was economically viable it would have been done already.
Refineries were proposed for SW Maricopa County in the 1990s, but they were consistently opposed by NIMBYs & environmentalists. Arizona Clean Fuels was behind one of the projects, and they were supposed to eventually build a refinery in Yuma County, but never did. Refineries definitely take a while to get started, so that's all the more reason to get moving now instead of later. If we keep relying on aging pipelines from CA & TX, our gas prices will continue to be higher than the national average, and there is an increased risk of rupture in the pipelines (like what happened in 2003).
I want to thank this thread. This last week, I was attending my uncle's funeral in Peoria. Driving from El Paso, we stopped at our favorite quick lunch place, In -N-Out at Kino Pky in Tucson. Even though my car had more than half a tank of gas, I purposely filled up at the Chevron there next to INO. After getting to PHX and seeing the more than a dollar more per gallon, I was glad I did. Coming back, I filled up at Ina Rd. truck stop ( ??) and got premium for $4.09 . Thank you for the info !
The above article explains it. As was mentioned by another poster, there are no refineries in AZ. We rely on old pipelines from both CA and TX. The Phoenix area receives a large portion from CA where the fuel prices are higher, and there have been problems with some refineries in CA. Maricopa County also requires a special blend of gas to supposedly combat air quality issues. This all contributes to the higher prices, and the cost of gas here is always higher than the national average.
I know we're not supposed to talk politics here, but our current "leaders" and the crop of candidates running for office aren't taking any interest in offering any viable solutions. Many people don't realize that AZ has oil fields. They aren't anywhere close to numerous like in OK or TX, but they do exist. They could easily be utilized as an additional fuel source, and new refineries can be built so we wouldn't have to rely on other states as much. This would give us additional resources, as well as lower the overall costs. Why nobody is on board with this is beyond comprehension.
Arizona has oil production, yes. The last data I can find says production for the entre state in January of 2017 was 13 barrels per day. That's 546 gallons of crude oil produced per day in the entire state. No one is going to build a refinery for that little bit of oil. Arizona is not a good oil producing state, and never will be
We have lots of opportunities to be more self sufficient, but certain politicians & environmental groups keep resisting additional oil pipelines. Our own President canceled the Keystone contract. So unless we as a state and nation stop this resistance to drilling & refining, we will keep relying on overseas oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20
Arizona has oil production, yes. The last data I can find says production for the entre state in January of 2017 was 13 barrels per day. That's 546 gallons of crude oil produced per day in the entire state. No one is going to build a refinery for that little bit of oil. Arizona is not a good oil producing state, and never will be
I realize that Arizona has limited oil compared to CA & TX, but there are oil fields which aren't even being used. We can also use crude oil from Mexico, and that would be enough for refineries here. A company called Arizona Clean Fuels proposed building such a refinery about 18 years ago, but it was heavily opposed by NIMBYs & environmentalists, and the refinery never materialized. It would have been a much cleaner, efficient refinery compared to the ones we currently rely on from California.
All I'm going to say at this point is: you can balk at these ideas and claim we're not an oil producing state ... however, unless we come up with solutions, Arizona will continue to pay more for gas than many other states. We currently have the 8th highest gas prices in the nation, but it doesn't have to be this way. We can either sit around and complain about how much we pay for gas, or we can get busy and do something about it. Apparently, you're fine with using the same old process year after year, decade after decade.
We have lots of opportunities to be more self sufficient, but certain politicians & environmental groups keep resisting additional oil pipelines. Our own President canceled the Keystone contract. So unless we as a state and nation stop this resistance to drilling & refining, we will keep relying on overseas oil.
I realize that Arizona has limited oil compared to CA & TX, but there are oil fields which aren't even being used. We can also use crude oil from Mexico, and that would be enough for refineries here. A company called Arizona Clean Fuels proposed building such a refinery about 18 years ago, but it was heavily opposed by NIMBYs & environmentalists, and the refinery never materialized. It would have been a much cleaner, efficient refinery compared to the ones we currently rely on from California.
All I'm going to say at this point is: you can balk at these ideas and claim we're not an oil producing state ... however, unless we come up with solutions, Arizona will continue to pay more for gas than many other states. We currently have the 8th highest gas prices in the nation, but it doesn't have to be this way. We can either sit around and complain about how much we pay for gas, or we can get busy and do something about it. Apparently, you're fine with using the same old process year after year, decade after decade.
The Keystone XL wouldn't help self sufficiency, since that's not US oil. It also wouldn't even be built yet.
Arizona will never, ever have enough oil to feed a refinery, and no one is going to build a crude oil refinery in Arizona.
How is Mexico going to get oil from the producing areas to Arizona? Mexico oil production is nowhere near Arizona, and crossing the mountains to get there would be prohibitively expensive.
Arizona will never, ever have enough oil to feed a refinery, and no one is going to build a crude oil refinery in Arizona.
How is Mexico going to get oil from the producing areas to Arizona? Mexico oil production is nowhere near Arizona, and crossing the mountains to get there would be prohibitively expensive.
The refinery proposed in 2004 would have connected a new pipeline from a Baja port where oil is produced. There are very few (or no) mountains standing in the way between there and the Yuma area where the refinery was supposed to be built. Read all about the proposal in the link below (which never came to fruition). All I'm hearing is how we can't have refineries for this reason or that reason. Lots of negativity & resistance while Arizona has some of the highest gas prices in the nation. Do you have a solution???
We have lots of opportunities to be more self sufficient, but certain politicians & environmental groups keep resisting additional oil pipelines. Our own President canceled the Keystone contract. So unless we as a state and nation stop this resistance to drilling & refining, we will keep relying on overseas oil.
I realize that Arizona has limited oil compared to CA & TX, but there are oil fields which aren't even being used. We can also use crude oil from Mexico, and that would be enough for refineries here. A company called Arizona Clean Fuels proposed building such a refinery about 18 years ago, but it was heavily opposed by NIMBYs & environmentalists, and the refinery never materialized. It would have been a much cleaner, efficient refinery compared to the ones we currently rely on from California.
All I'm going to say at this point is: you can balk at these ideas and claim we're not an oil producing state ... however, unless we come up with solutions, Arizona will continue to pay more for gas than many other states. We currently have the 8th highest gas prices in the nation, but it doesn't have to be this way. We can either sit around and complain about how much we pay for gas, or we can get busy and do something about it. Apparently, you're fine with using the same old process year after year, decade after decade.
You obviously didn't read the Thom Hartmann article recommended in gemstone1's post. It's a good explainer. We are self-sufficient, but the oil companies make more $$$ selling US-produced gasoline to other countries. We sell about a third of our production abroad. Also, the largest oil refinery in the US is owned by the Saudis, who are using the supply as a political tool (they're currently shipping a massive amount of gasoline to Brazil to keep prices there artificially low and prop up Bolsonaro ahead of the election there, which also raises prices here, hurting Dems ahead of the mid-terms). US oil and gasoline production is part of the world market. Because the oil companies want it that way. If we went back to a US-only market there would be a glut and oil company profits would suffer.
As far as needing to drill more or build new pipelines or new refineries, it's industry talking points to get more tax breaks and reduced regulatory oversight. If there was a buck to be made pumping or refining in Arizona, somebody would have done it. And it would have virtually no impact on local gas prices. They're sitting on loads of unused permits. Oil costs $23 per barrel to pump from established wells. That more than doubles to $48 for new wells. There's a cost differential for gas from new refineries also. They're quite happy to just stick with what they have now.
Funny how prices go up because a refinery is down for maintenance or to switch to winter blend, but you never hear about a big price drop when that refinery comes back on line. Both sides of the supply/demand equation are controlled by the oil companies, so they game it for all they can. The only time prices come down meaningfully is when demand drops a huge amount (recession, pandemic, etc.).
The refinery proposed in 2004 would have connected a new pipeline from a Baja port where oil is produced. There are very few (or no) mountains standing in the way between there and the Yuma area where the refinery was supposed to be built. Read all about the proposal in the link below (which never came to fruition). All I'm hearing is how we can't have refineries for this reason or that reason. Lots of negativity & resistance while Arizona has some of the highest gas prices in the nation. Do you have a solution???
There is no oil production in Baja California. There would have to be an oil terminal built to receive oil tankers. Mexico is not going to allow a pipeline to be built across a biological preserve. Then, there's the whole issue of how to distribute the fuel across Arizona.
My solution is that Arizona sucks it up and continues as it has. Perhaps drive less.
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