Gas in Phoenix is $1.80 higher per gallon than in Tucson. WHY.

[WanderingRebel]

I find it amazing how many experts we have on so many subjects in this forum. Apparently, a lot of you are oil experts, internationally and domestically, without ever working in the industry. Amazing. I would love to know what you all do for full-time work, that you are able to have so much free time to also study the geopolitical aspects of oil production and distribution.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by WanderingRebel

I find it amazing how many experts we have on so many subjects in this forum. Apparently, a lot of you are oil experts, internationally and domestically, without ever working in the industry. Amazing. I would love to know what you all do for full-time work, that you are able to have so much free time to also study the geopolitical aspects of oil production and distribution.

I've worked in the oil business for over 30 years. My family has been in it for over 100 years.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

You obviously didn't read the Thom Hartmann article recommended in gemstone1's post. It's a good explainer. We are self-sufficient, but the oil companies make more $$$ selling US-produced gasoline to other countries. We sell about a third of our production abroad. Also, the largest oil refinery in the US is owned by the Saudis, who are using the supply as a political tool (they're currently shipping a massive amount of gasoline to Brazil to keep prices there artificially low and prop up Bolsonaro ahead of the election there, which also raises prices here, hurting Dems ahead of the mid-terms). US oil and gasoline production is part of the world market. Because the oil companies want it that way. If we went back to a US-only market there would be a glut and oil company profits would suffer.

As far as needing to drill more or build new pipelines or new refineries, it's industry talking points to get more tax breaks and reduced regulatory oversight. If there was a buck to be made pumping or refining in Arizona, somebody would have done it. And it would have virtually no impact on local gas prices. They're sitting on loads of unused permits. Oil costs $23 per barrel to pump from established wells. That more than doubles to $48 for new wells. There's a cost differential for gas from new refineries also. They're quite happy to just stick with what they have now.

Funny how prices go up because a refinery is down for maintenance or to switch to winter blend, but you never hear about a big price drop when that refinery comes back on line. Both sides of the supply/demand equation are controlled by the oil companies, so they game it for all they can. The only time prices come down meaningfully is when demand drops a huge amount (recession, pandemic, etc.).

We all know that the oil companies have us over a barrel (pun intended). Everything you stated still doesn't explain why Arizona has some of the highest gas prices in the nation, and why there are no viable remedies being seriously discussed. I'm at least offering some alternatives, which none of the current crop of candidates have ever mentioned. It proves what I've been saying: we love to cry & moan about the high costs, but when it comes to actually implementing solutions, a wave of silence enters the room.

Originally Posted by WRM20

There is no oil production in Baja California. There would have to be an oil terminal built to receive oil tankers. Mexico is not going to allow a pipeline to be built across a biological preserve. Then, there's the whole issue of how to distribute the fuel across Arizona.

My solution is that Arizona sucks it up and continues as it has. Perhaps drive less.

Sucking it up and continuing down the same path is more of a cop out than a solution. Telling Arizonans to do less driving is about like telling Kanye West to be less of a jerk. In other words: not gonna happen!
What do you suggest should a major rupture occur in one of the pipelines? That actually happened in 2003, and it contributed to why Clean Fuels proposed the refinery: to give us a new source in the event of another 2003ish catastrophe. Obviously, they were the experts and had it figured out, but the refinery never came to be for different reasons ... one of which was all the opposition.

It's a lot like the drought: we had the first warning signs 20 years ago, but all we did was shrug our shoulders & said we have plenty of water. Now that there are water shortages & cutbacks, we're scrambling to find additional sources. We've had the warning signs about our fuel supply, but failed to act on it. We have nobody to blame but ourselves, and your do nothing attitude about this is part of the problem.

Originally Posted by WanderingRebel

I find it amazing how many experts we have on so many subjects in this forum. Apparently, a lot of you are oil experts, internationally and domestically, without ever working in the industry. Amazing. I would love to know what you all do for full-time work, that you are able to have so much free time to also study the geopolitical aspects of oil production and distribution.

What is your solution?

[Pissed fuel user]

I have lived in phoenix for 20 years. We are getting screwed by base product fuel companies. This has never been the case here. Neck and neck with prices of that landfill west of us. Not so long ago our base product was from el paso. Now 65% comes from that crap assed state west. Theres your problem. Someones palms are getting greased and if you look ling enough you will find the answer. Dont be a sheep listening to these lies. This state and greed is screwing its people. I promise you. Look at the facts. Heres one fact. In the last 10 years we have not had one year other than this year 2023 when our fuel price is on par with california over switching winter to summer blends. It is a 100% lie guys.

[Woody01]

Just went to Wickenburg last week to look at houses. Why is gas over $1.00 more than Prescott when all ya do is drive down the hill?

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Woody01

Just went to Wickenburg last week to look at houses. Why is gas over $1.00 more than Prescott when all ya do is drive down the hill?

Wickenburg is in Maricopa County, which falls under the CBG requirements (special blended gas to supposedly burn cleaner than regular gasoline). Even though Wickenburg is a small town that is pretty far removed from the Phoenix area, they still have to comply with the county rules. CBG is very costly, so of course, the added cost is passed onto the consumers. This is yet another good argument for why Maricopa County needs to be split into smaller counties, but that's another topic.

The price of gas in Arizona as a whole is still higher than the national average. As I mentioned before, it's largely because we rely on pipelines from other states (mainly California), and we have too many naysayers & NIMBYs who are opposed to building refineries here. People love to complain about how much they pay at the gas pumps, but they apparently are fine with continuing the same old methods, and not embracing change for the better.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Wickenburg is in Maricopa County, which falls under the CBG requirements (special blended gas to supposedly burn cleaner than regular gasoline). Even though Wickenburg is a small town that is pretty far removed from the Phoenix area, they still have to comply with the county rules. CBG is very costly, so of course, the added cost is passed onto the consumers. This is yet another good argument for why Maricopa County needs to be split into smaller counties, but that's another topic.

The price of gas in Arizona as a whole is still higher than the national average. As I mentioned before, it's largely because we rely on pipelines from other states (mainly California), and we have too many naysayers & NIMBYs who are opposed to building refineries here. People love to complain about how much they pay at the gas pumps, but they apparently are fine with continuing the same old methods, and not embracing change for the better.

The fact that I can drive from Queen Creek to Wickenburg in 2 hours and still be in the same county is mind boggling to me. I don't understand this one bit.

[PhoenixSomeday]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

The fact that I can drive from Queen Creek to Wickenburg in 2 hours and still be in the same county is mind boggling to me. I don't understand this one bit.

Same when driving across the 10 from CA. Maricopa County starts waaaaaaaaay before you get even close to the metro.

[Woody01]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

The fact that I can drive from Queen Creek to Wickenburg in 2 hours and still be in the same county is mind boggling to me. I don't understand this one bit.

I know, right...? It's the old Spanish land grants that eventually turned into our current counties. I used to live in San Diego County and it was 2 hrs from the beach to the desert..... crazy, but kinda cool...!