Ohio continuing to plan for 110mph rail to Pittsburgh (Philadelphia: live, cost)

[BrianTH]

Here is one link:

Ohio Hub Advances as Passenger Rail Connections to Toledo and Pittsburgh Studied « The Transport Politic

Some excerpts:

Following through on a years-long promise to include fourth-city Toledo in the next phase of rail investment in Ohio, the administration of Governor Ted Strickland has announced the awarding to an engineering firm an $8 million study of future intercity routes that would connect the Lake Erie city to the rest of the Buckeye State. A line into Pittsburgh is also up for evaluation. . . .

In January, Ohio received $400 million from the federal government to implement intercity rail service on the 256-mile 3C rail line between Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, and Dayton — the state’s four largest metropolitan areas. According to current plans, initial 79 mph operations would begin in 2012 on an improved freight corridor, bringing trains to the state’s capital in Columbus for the first time since 1977. The 3C project does not qualify as high-speed rail under anyone’s definition, especially considering its 6h30 estimated travel time, but future investments could increase speeds to 110 mph. . . .

The 3C corridor, however, is not the be-all and end-all, since it lacks connections to Toledo, Akron, and Canton, three other large metropolitan areas. In addition, it does not provide for direct links either to Pittsburgh (and the East Coast network) or Chicago, Detroit, and Indianapolis, three major Midwest cities. . . .

Consultant AECOM will specifically consider potential upgrades for the 3C route, plus new 110 mph links between Detroit, Toledo, and Cleveland; Cleveland and Pittsburgh; and Toledo and Columbus.

A couple more articles and excerpts:

State wants passenger trains to Toledo and Pittsburgh, too | The Columbus Dispatch

The state has signed a $7.8 million contract with an engineering firm to study new routes that would branch off from Ohio's marquee federal stimulus project -- a $400 million rail system with 79 mph trains connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati beginning in 2012.

The contract with AECOM, a Los Angeles-based company that has worked on California's planned high-speed rail system, will determine routes for a future 110 mph service on four corridors: Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland, Cleveland-Pittsburgh, Toledo-Columbus and Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati.

The federal government requires this kind of preliminary environmental impact study before funding can be approved. The study would likely take about a year, said Matt Dietrich, executive director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission.

toledoblade.com -- The Blade ~ Toledo Ohio

The Ohio Rail Development Commission has signed a $7.8 million contract with AECOM, a Los Angeles engineering firm, to assess what would need to be done to institute 110-mph passenger trains on four routes, including Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland and Toledo-Columbus. The study also would address a Cleveland-Pittsburgh route and upgrading the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati route, over which trains are planned to run at a top speed of 79 mph to 110 mph. . . .

The study will be paid for with federal planning money allocated to Ohio. AECOM is expected to take a year to produce a report. AECOM was chosen from among five applicants, the ODOT spokesman said, because of its experience in high-speed rail planning in the Midwest, including some of the original work on the so-called Ohio Hub plan.

Although this is just planning so far, there is a good chance that we will see a significant stream of federal money allocated to intercity passenger rail in the next multi-year transportation bill, likely to be passed next year. So getting a jump on this planning now will set up Ohio to make credible proposals by the time such funding is being allocated.

Personally, I think 110 mph service to Cleveland (likely via Youngstown) would be pretty nice for the region, and service to Toledo/Detroit could be included as well. Future Ohio lines might connect Pittsburgh to Chicago via Toledo, and Pittsburgh directly to Columbus and on to Cincinnati and Indianapolis. All those routes are potentially competitive with driving and flying at 110 mph, although upgrades to 125 mph would help on some of the longer routes.

As the various sources above discuss, however, all this is contingent on the results of the upcoming elections.

[South Range Family]

I can see a non-stop between Pittsburgh, and Cleveland.
I don't think it would be feasible to stop in Youngstown. Youngstown is 60 miles from both Cleveland, and the Burgh. By the time you got up to 110 mph, it would be time to start slowing down, and then you would do the exact same thing in Pittsburgh.

Factor in waiting for the train, parking, and all of that crap, most people would continue to drive the short distance that we do today.

[Blackbeauty212]

Well atleast there's one state serious about Rail expansion....wish PA could get serious and the thing is they dont need as many lines as OH because all of PA important cities are along one straight trajectory Philadelphia- Harrisburg - Pittsburgh that's all PA needs to get done...Philly to Harrisburg is already done...

[BrianTH]

This packet contains an older mixed 79mph/110mph proposal for Cleveland to Pittsburgh (the scenario involving some 110 mph segments is called the "high speed scenario"):

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/3CisME/Documents/Pittsburgh-Cleveland_extension_packet.pdf (broken link)

In that version, they looked at both an "express" straight from Cleveland to Pittsburgh that would take 2:02, and a "local" (making four intermediate stops with 2-minute dwell times) that would take a total of 2:24. That is not a trivial time penalty, and of course if you are continuing on to cities to the west of Cleveland (or eventually to the east of Pittsburgh) every minute on a relatively short intermediate segment like this is precious.

Still, the projected station volumes in that study suggest a decent amount of annual demand at the local stations (and likely some the other way, meaning people in Cleveland or Pittsburgh wanting to take a quick train to the local stations). So my guess is you would end up running both schedules.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Well atleast there's one state serious about Rail expansion....wish PA could get serious and the thing is they dont need as many lines as OH because all of PA important cities are along one straight trajectory Philadelphia- Harrisburg - Pittsburgh that's all PA needs to get done...Philly to Harrisburg is already done...

I agree there has been a lack of seriousness about Keystone West (Harrisburg to Pittsburgh) on the state level. However, to be fair, Keystone West is highly problematic: the current rail alignment isn't very conducive to higher speeds, isn't electrified, and on top of that it is very congested with freight traffic. The logical solution is a brand new electrified alignment designed specifically for high speed rail (maybe both passenger and freight, maybe just passenger), but that is going to be very, very expensive, particularly considering the topography (you will likely need some tunnels and such).

Still, at least the state got a little federal money in the last round to begin the planning process for Keystone West. And I think Keystone West will get done eventually regardless of the cost, because that is the most logical link between most of the Northeast Coast and the Great Lakes network that will be centered on Chicago. But it may have to wait for the political pressure to build, and part of getting there may be increasing demand on the Ohio/Great Lakes side first.

But yes, there is a certain strangeness to Ohio devoting more attention and resources to getting better passenger rail to Pittsburgh than Pennsylvania.

[uricmu]

If anything, we need a train to DC/Philly/NY. There is no reason in this day and age that your only options are flying, a greyhound ride, or a 15 hour trip to NY on amtrak

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I agree there has been a lack of seriousness about Keystone West (Harrisburg to Pittsburgh) on the state level. However, to be fair, Keystone West is highly problematic: the current rail alignment isn't very conducive to higher speeds, isn't electrified, and on top of that it is very congested with freight traffic. The logical solution is a brand new electrified alignment designed specifically for high speed rail (maybe both passenger and freight, maybe just passenger), but that is going to be very, very expensive, particularly considering the topography (you will likely need some tunnels and such).

Still, at least the state got a little federal money in the last round to begin the planning process for Keystone West. And I think Keystone West will get done eventually regardless of the cost, because that is the most logical link between most of the Northeast Coast and the Great Lakes network that will be centered on Chicago. But it may have to wait for the political pressure to build, and part of getting there may be increasing demand on the Ohio/Great Lakes side first.

But yes, there is a certain strangeness to Ohio devoting more attention and resources to getting better passenger rail to Pittsburgh than Pennsylvania.

I think you can use some abandoned PA Turnpike segments and Tunnels to build a new route. The state should pool private investors and make a Private - Public project like they do it in Europe.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by uricmu

If anything, we need a train to DC/Philly/NY. There is no reason in this day and age that your only options are flying, a greyhound ride, or a 15 hour trip to NY on amtrak

I agree, but that is going to cost a good chunk of money, so it becomes a political issue.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

The state should pool private investors and make a Private - Public project like they do it in Europe.

I agree this is a potentially promising approach, but I also think that depends on building out the Ohio/Chicago side. In a nutshell, you will see a lot more private interest in this segment if it could compete for business travel between the East Coast and the big Great Lakes cities, as opposed to just getting you to Pittsburgh.

[Craziaskowboi]

I think Harrisburg only cares about providing rail service to eastern Pennsylvania.