Welp! Its official! PGH PUBLIC SCHOOLS - 2 hr delay day after SUPER BOWL

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

I used to get rides to school via minivan because I never could make it to the bus stop, so I stopped trying. Then I turned 16 and drove my Jeep every day. And then I got my license and drove my Jeep faster every day.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As I noted before, kids around here have gotten soft ever since they started going to school instead of working in coal mines.

Too extreme of view. Babying kids will make them soft and not handle what lies ahead. No way a school has some delay because the Steelers are playing. There is a ski club in our school district and the kids get home at about 11:00PM when they go on week days. That is a choice to stay up and ski that late. Do they get to come to school late the next day because they decided to go skiing? No. Should kids be able to come to school late because the choose to stay up all the way to 10:00PM? No. Get with the program, there is no excuse to have a delay because of anything but weather or some emergency. Prepare kids for the real world not some dream world that closes because they are going to a party the night before. If you act like that in the real world you will be fired. Of course we are talking about city schools, so maybe it really doesn't matter.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Too extreme of view.

Call it a modest proposal.

Babying kids will make them soft and not handle what lies ahead.

That's why they should be in the factories and mines by age 5 at the latest. As soon as they aren't babies, we should treat them just like adults in order to prepare them for being adults.

Prepare kids for the real world not some dream world that closes because they are going to a party the night before.

Right. They should also have to pay rent, their own food bills, and so on. Free room and board? What is this, a dream world?

If you act like that in the real world you will be fired.

Turning off the sarcasm for a moment, working while sleep-deprived has many of the same effects as working while drunk. I'm not saying people should automatically be fired for working while sleep-deprived, but we really are being somewhat irrational when we make it sound like a positive character trait to party all night then work sleep-deprived the next day, and that shouldn't be what we are encouraging children to think.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm not saying people should automatically be fired for working while sleep-deprived, but we really are being somewhat irrational when we make it sound like a positive character trait to party all night then work sleep-deprived the next day, and that shouldn't be what we are encouraging children to think.

I don't think we could beat this dead horse anymore. Like I said, if you want to think there is some great message in having a two hour delay because a football game was played the night before and ended at 10:00, that is fine. I am just never going to agree with you. It is illogical and irrational to think any kid in the city schools were getting some big message that the school was teaching the kids that sleep depravation is most important, so we must have a two hour delay. In reality, it was saying the football game > school = delay.

[Katarina Witt]

It's time to repost this, with added emphasis:

Originally Posted by Katiana

Here's what they did in Indy last year:

Indianapolis to start school later Monday following Super Bowl - ESPN

INDIANAPOLIS -- Students in Indianapolis Public Schools are allowed to sleep in a bit Monday thanks to a one-hour delay scheduled to give bus drivers more time to get to work the morning after the Super Bowl. But they'll have to make up for half the lost time.

The state's largest school district initially scheduled a two-hour delay but changed course after the Indiana Department of Education said such delays should only be used for emergency situations. State Superintendent Tony Bennett said that because Sunday night's game between the Indianapolis Colts and New Orleans Saints didn't qualify for an automatic waiver for emergency two-hour delays, missed time would have to be made up.

Apparently in 2007 in Indy, so many school bus drivers called in sick that classes had to be cancelled.

I tried to find out if Denver Public Schools had a late start after the last time the Broncos won the SB, but it's been so long ago that I couldn't bring anything up on google.

Read the link. The reason for the delay in Indianapolis was the bus drivers calling in sick. It had nothing to do with the kids (natch). The only acceptable reason, IMO, for delaying school is the safety of the kids. If PPS felt it would be unsafe for the kids, they made the right decision. IMO (again), it has nothing to do with adequate sleep for the kids, etc. That is a parenting issue.

I do think this gives the wrong message to kids. You never hear of a two hour late start the day after the elections, so that kids/teachers can stay up watching the polls close in Hawaii, or the day after the Pope's visit or anything else, just for the Super Bowl. As an RN who has worked many weekends/holidays/evenings and the like, I learned early on if I had to go to work the next day, it didn't matter what major event, sporting or other, I had to cut short. However, I do feel that the kids' safety on the buses trumps all that. I'm not quite sure how a 2 hr. late start makes a hung over bus driver any safer, OTOH.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I don't think we could beat this dead horse anymore.

It takes two to tango.

It is illogical and irrational to think any kid in the city schools were getting some big message . . . .

Agreed. Like I said before, any time you want to drop all talk of some greater message this sends, that is fine with me. I'm perfectly happy to stick to the simple question of whether it makes sense to force kids to go to school sleep-deprived.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

IMO (again), it has nothing to do with adequate sleep for the kids, etc. That is a parenting issue.

It is indeed in part a parenting issue, but why is it ONLY a parenting issue?

Forget about the Superbowl issue for a moment--in general, many school programs simply start way too early in the day as a regular matter. Schools do this for a variety of reasons, but after seeing the science on kids and sleep-deprivation, some schools have made a point of starting later, and seen good results. So why exactly isn't scheduling appropriate start times a school issue?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is indeed in part a parenting issue, but why is it ONLY a parenting issue?

Forget about the Superbowl issue for a moment--in general, many school programs simply start way too early in the day as a regular matter. Schools do this for a variety of reasons, but after seeing the science on kids and sleep-deprivation, some schools have made a point of starting later, and seen good results. So why exactly isn't scheduling appropriate start times a school issue?

Well, that is a topic for a different thread entirely. I have read the study about the Minneapolis schools, where this was pioneered (not just the stuff that made it into the popular press) and there was no statistically significant improvement in grades, despite a great deal of disruption in setting up the system. Some big issues were: teachers having to drive to school in rush hour traffic instead of earlier and kids missing a lot more school for sporting events. I think there were others, as well.

[BrianTH]

The Minnesota study did find an improvement in grades, although it is correct that they could not say it was statistically significant. But they also found many other benefits.

The Massachusetts study, however, did find a statistically significant difference in grades.

Anyway, I agree that reviewing all the science is a much bigger discussion than is appropriate here.

[greg42]

What does any of that have to do with waiting in a car vs actually dressing warm enough for the conditions outside? That's where the recent sarcasm started, I believe, and that was me posting. I get the point of the sarcastic remark, that norms change over time, sure. That doesn't automatically make all those changes worthwhile or for the better.

I'd be all for making the school start later most likely, but I don't have a strong opinion on it given that I'm not in school and won't have any children in school. I do, however, think the trend of "I'm gonna be in a building all day so I don't need a coat" is pretty silly. That's not just the kids; people going to work are doing it too. And there seems to be a socioeconomic correlation, at least based on my admittedly minimal observation.