Suburbanites: What Would it Take to Entice You to Consider Urban Living? (Pittsburgh: college, price)

[gg]

Originally Posted by Sideblinded

Your use of the words neutered and spayed is offensive.

I didn't suggest it. It also had after what I said, meaning, "Is that your idea?" Don't take things out of context.

[gg]

It has been brought to my attention that some may think I am looking at race when talking about areas. What I find interesting, is I have NEVER mentioned "black" or "white" in a discussion. Only geographical areas that are in fact "mixed" that need to be fixed up. The current residents have been there long enough and they have not come through. Prime property is being treated like a waste dump. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with a trend. East Liberty going high end would help the city in a huge way. There needs to be a balance to help Pittsburgh along. Schools are a huge concern. People would love to live in Pittsburgh and raise a family, walk around Highland Park and all the great things the city had to offer, but they need a good school and want to feel safe. Closing Peabody will help the area. I have ridden my bike by there when school lets out and have seem a fellow cyclist punched in the face while trying to get by. I rode at the person with my bike and he and his buddies backed off, but the point is areas can't be like that if people are wanting to feel safe. Also all the litter everywhere. Most people don't want to live in a dump site. They want things to be clean. East Liberty in its current state is very depressing for those of us that have pride and don't take the city of Pittsburgh for granted.

Lots have to change for there to be a full migration back to the city. It might happen, but it will take many years. Section 8 is a big problem because it promotes no pride. If you are getting handouts, you will never feel proud. Just psychology 101 is all that is needed to know that.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It has been brought to my attention that some may think I am looking at race when talking about areas. What I find interesting, is I have NEVER mentioned "black" or "white" in a discussion.

Well since all of the areas you mentioned were occupied by poor blacks people pretty much assumed you were referring to black people. Personally, I don't care either way, if group of people are destroying a part of our city they need called out whether they're white, black, pink, purple, or blue. People need get over the fact that minorities can be pieces of garbage too. Deal with it.

[BrianTH]

I, for one, accept h_curtis's word that he is a pure classist, and not a racist, meaning he thinks all rich people are good and all poor people are bad, regardless of their race or ethnicity.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I, for one, accept h_curtis's word that he is a pure classist, and not a racist, meaning he thinks all rich people are good and all poor people are bad, regardless of their race or ethnicity.

Brian we are so different in our views. You say "rich", I say people who work hard and live in the city. Notice I always refer to East Liberty. You are blind to see that because you think it is a blanket statement regarding what I feel it best for the city. East Liberty is my focus because it lies in an area that is already mostly higher end. Continuing that theme in that area makes sense. I have never mentioned other problem areas. Lots of the Hill District is in pretty bad shape, but I don't feel that area is as important to the overall picture of the city. I don't really think you are capable of seeing very large pictures. You just pice a few words out of what I say and label it as "he wants only rich people in the city". You are a headline reader only and don't actually read the whole view of someone. You shut off, because it goes against what you are about. You want people to live on assisted living in prime areas of Pittsburgh. I DON'T. They are not treating the areas well. Those areas WILL NOT grow in their current situation. I am looking out for Pittsburgh and growth. You just want to keep the same cycle going on and on. Guess what? It didn't work for the past 50 years and it isn't going to work now. It is broken. The current cycle is old and tired. It needs fixed. I am proposing a solution to part of the problem. You want things to stay the same.

One thing for sure, people like yourself never will change their minds about anything. You are on a path and that path is in a very straight line. I personally feel it will lead you off the cliff, but you can't hear anything and keep marching forward.

I know we will never understand each other. My view is very big picture. Yours is based on a few people. I am looking at effects of the PPS. You are looking at a few people. My view pertains to tax base and revenue for a region. You are looking at a few people.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Well since all of the areas you mentioned were occupied by poor blacks people pretty much assumed you were referring to black people. Personally, I don't care either way, if group of people are destroying a part of our city they need called out whether they're white, black, pink, purple, or blue. People need get over the fact that minorities can be pieces of garbage too. Deal with it.

I don't really look at the race much. It is a demographical statistic and part of a puzzle, but it is more to do with areas that have been let go too long and those areas are prohibiting urban growth. They prohibit growth because of several factors, but four of the biggest are safety, schools, upkeep (litter) and tax base. There is an imbalance in the city that needs to be addressed to "entice you to consider urban living", which is what this topic is. If you don't want my answers, don't ask such a question. I am going to give my honest opinion.

Look at the school district problems with money with Corbett's funding cuts. The city is in very deep due to how many don't pay much in the way of taxes to help Actually many take lots out of the PPS because they are on assistance. That is all find and well, but there are too many that are not paying enough. If East Liberty turned around it would help the region. Black or white means little when you are looking at budgets and improving city life.

Good luck with thinking all will be well if we continue forward like we have for the past 50 years. The numbers don't work.

[greg42]

What do you consider high end though? Realistically I see parts of East Liberty filling out in a sort of medium range, not high end, at least anytime soon. Perhaps a couple decades or so from now it could end up an extension of Shadyside's mixture of mid to high end as that area becomes more and more desirable.

With projects like the Highland Building on tap and its convenience to various places plus its own shopping and dining, at least the southern part of East Liberty should be filling out even fairly short-term. It's going to appeal mainly to outsiders, though, because long-time Pittsburghers still won't be able to get over what it was like in the 90s. I actually had an interesting experience with that the other day. We were out at the U. of Pitt. surplus warehouse which is at the far end of Point Breeze, next to Wilkinsburg. (Great place to get a used but good file cabinet or some other office stuff with no BS. See University of Pittsburgh - Surplus Property l Home) I and a native Pittsburgher coworker drove out there, using the parkway on the way out. On the way back I drove on Penn Ave. It's one thing for the lifers to hear about what's happened over there, quite another for them to see it. She was pretty amazed. Clearly hadn't been through there for anything in probably about 12-15 years.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Brian we are so different in our views.

Correct. I think people matter, rich or poor. You think that as long as the places you favor become full of happy rich people, it doesn't matter what is happening to the people you want to see forced out of those places. There is simply no way for us to cross that divide, because we don't care about the same things.

The irony is you claim I am unwilling to consider other viewpoints or look at the big picture. Of course, the exact opposite is the case: you are unwilling to look at the implications of your own views, which is why you are impervious to criticisms of your views. And if someone catches you making false factual claims or supporting your viewpoint with logical inconsistencies, you wave that all away by claiming no matter what you say, it has to be right because you know better than anyone else, and if someone thinks you are saying something wrong, they obviously just aren't sophisticated enough to understand how right you always are.

Bottomline, though, it doesn't really matter that you are willing to ignore facts or logic in defense of your views. Your views are driven by the fact that you don't care about most people, and there is no amount of facts or logic that will convince you to care.

I just wish you would stop claiming that people who actually do care about other people somehow don't understand you, or don't understand what you are proposing. We understand you quite well, and understand exactly what you are proposing. That's precisely why we disagree so much.

[UKyank]

i think for those that do not have children, the #1 detriment to wanting to live in the city is crime, and specifically petty crime. Violent crime is usually not directed at random victims, and should not be much of a problem to the average person. Petty crimes though can wear on you very quickly though.
Every summer I have lived in the city I have had to deal with my car being broken into (and no, I'm not leaving anything of value in it), and this wears on you very quickly. Couple this with the lack of any police work for these type of crimes and it wears on you even more.

The areas of the city that are growing are all in close proximity to bad areas and unfortunately those looking for a quick buck have no qualms doing smash and grabs of the things that people have actually worked hard to get. (or even worse, mug the people which seems to be more on the rise here)

I have little to no sympathy for the bad areas of the city as they were not always crime infested, and the people currently living there have apparently no pride as they do nothing to clean up their own neighborhoods.

[Burghgirl17]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Couple this with the lack of any police work for these type of crimes and it wears on you even more.

This is a good point. When someone broke into my apartment in the middle of the day in Shadyside, it took about 2 hours for the police to even show up. I am there alone, with the door wide open (it was kicked in and I didn't want to touch it and disturb anything). They were there for a few minutes, then sent a duo back later on in the evening to take a few fingerprints.

I never heard from them again. I called to get the police report number and see if there was any update. No call back from the officer. Never heard from a D.A., so guessing they never caught the guy.

Meanwhile, when I called the police in my suburban neighborhood about something very minor (guy in a car sitting in front of my vacationing neighbors' home for what seemed like a suspiciously long period of time), the police were there within minutes, and followed up with me later to see if he had returned.

I realize that the city police have a LOT more issues to deal with than suburban police, but 2 hours to respond to a burglary is ridiculous.