Suburbanites: What Would it Take to Entice You to Consider Urban Living? (York: rentals, co-op)

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

There will never be a better tax base with that kind of neighborhood. That is obvious. Sometimes neighborhoods can be taken back. If there was no such thing as section 8, the city would get taken back so much faster. Slum lords love that guaranteed check. Take that guarantee away and watch how fast areas will start to go in a good direction. It would make people's heads spin. Oh well, I can dream can't I?

I completely agree with you, remove section 8, and make those rental properties stand on their own (which they won't). Make the areas improve, or die, many will improve.

I'm dreaming right along with you.

[bboy36win]

"Rock 'n' Roll ain't noise pollution."
- AC/DC

[BrianTH]

For those advocating eliminating Section 8--are you planning to offer an alternative?

Because otherwise, a lot of people currently receiving vouchers, including a lot of children, are going to end up living in shantytowns (assuming you plan to allow them even that much).

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

For those advocating eliminating Section 8--are you planning to offer an alternative?

Because otherwise, a lot of people, including a lot of children, are going to end up living in shantytowns (assuming you plan to allow them even that much).

On that same note, a lot of people are going to be kicking your door in because they don't have anything of their own.

The anti-welfare arguments I always hear never take into account that people with no way of making an income (for whatever reason) will be even more desperate and will destroy society as a result.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

NO! Money spent on city schools isn't the real answer. It is the % of disadvantaged kids that is the issue. You cannot have 50% disadvantage kids and expect to throw money at the problem and it magically goes away. I think people in the education business are starting to realize that kids with home lives that include guns, drugs and no food or help to the kids are not going to make it in an educated society, so they are going to fall into drugs and follow mom and dad's way. I remember living on the corner of Lincoln Larimer, E. Lib and Highland Park and being stopped by a parent and his 8 year old kid asking me for a donation to his son's baseball team. I said, sure let me get my checkbook so I can write the check out to his team. Interestedly he said he can't take checks. When he left empty handed I just thought to myself, there is a lost kid forever. He is learning at 7 years old from daddy. Wow. I am sure he will be stealing by breaking in homes soon or he probably already is. Anyway, the percentage of disadvantaged kids has to be very low. Lets take a look at Kerr School. Homes in the district can run around $200k or $20K. People complain about the school because the percentage of disadvantaged kids bringing all test scores down, etc. So what is the percentage that can be overcome? 10%? 20%? I don't have that answer, but I do know if the percentage is extremely low, the district thrives. Yet another reason I want E. Liberty to go upscale. The city needs it.

Shame on you to speak death into a childs life (Stealing and breaking into homes??). A child who has a father, rich or poor, can become an amazing adult. Just because the father does not have the ability to cash a check does not mean the child is doomed. At least the father is spending time with the child. Alot of your remarks about city kids and black East Liberty residents is totally unfair and quite ignorant.

I am a black male (professional). I own my own home (in the hood). I have a wife (who is black) and two beautiful black children. My children attend PPS (Fulton French Magnet) and they are recieving an excellent education from teachers and adminstrators who care. I choose not to live in the suburbs because I love the city and all it has to offer. I volunteer my time to improve my community. I do not put others down to make myself feel better. My children also participate in urban athletic leagues. My wife and I along with many other married black parents volunteer with our youth football and baseball leagues. We show disadvantaged inner city kids an alternative to what they know. We open our homes to them. By seeing a normal functioning BLACK family, may help them make better choices in the future.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

The anti-welfare arguments I always hear never take into account that people with no way of making an income (for whatever reason) will be even more desperate and will destroy society as a result.

Correct. The Third World model that leads to shantytowns also leads to drug-dealing warlords, mass kidnappings for profit, and so on.

I should make clear, as I have in the past, that I do see the need for reforming the Section 8 voucher program. It is a big improvement on relying on public housing projects, but isn't working fast enough to actually disperse poverty.

But planning on doing absolutely nothing to address the need of poor people for housing isn't reform--it is taking us down a very, very ugly path, which will benefit almost no one in the long run (unless, perhaps, your dream is to be a drug-dealing warlord).

[Impala26]

Agreed with Brian. Every anti-welfare argument seems predicated on this concept that the poor will just go "somewhere else", as if the problem will simply disappear. The Pittsburgh metro is just beginning to see the effects of gentrification in places like Penn Hills. If welfare programs disappeared we would indeed see a return of shantytowns as well as people retreating to the first ring suburbs.

[BrianTH]

By the way, here is a classic on this subject:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/95438294/ (broken link)

[BrianTH]

wpipkins,

First, good for you, and keep it up.

Second, it really pains me to see all the people who have been fighting for these neighborhoods dismissed so easily. Even in the worst neighborhoods, most of the people are good people, and the idea they should all be displaced as soon as the neighborhood starts improving is nothing short of cruel.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, here is a classic on this subject:

Tom Toles on Gentrification, 1998 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/95438294/ - broken link)

So either whites are douchebags who don't like minorities or minorities are douchebags who screw everything up.