The Fall of McKeesport (Pittsburgh, Braddock: living in, law, club)

[Caladium]

Thinking outside the box for a moment...

Let's assume (just for this moment) a neighborhood like McKeesport is not going to return to its former glory. At that point, what is it's future?

1. Maybe it's future is to house low income/ghetto neighborhoods. If so, is that such a bad future? Low income neighborhoods have to be somewhere, and in a way you could take pride that lower income residents get a very nice, convenient place to live with a few pretty buildings to look at. Maybe those buildings would inspire a few people. Maybe it would draw artists.

2. If the neighborhood becomes horribly abandoned, maybe it's future is to become a large park. Something along the lines of Harpers Ferry, which is a park that has a lot of open area but also a working downtown, a few residents who still live there, and many historic buildings that are set up as quasi museums/businesses. Wouldn't that be an incredible thing for Pittsburgh to have someday?

[WINDCHIMES]

I do agree with you alleg angel...but who has the money to invest and fix these places, no one wants to raise their child around guns and drugs...these communities were once so beautiful and now people are afraid...I can't blame them...I grew up in one, I couldn't wait to get out...its depressing to be around people who are poor, bad streets, drug dealers...its no way to live...or to raise your children...its sad, I do agree with you. Today people are fighting to keep their jobs, just to stay afloat, more and more people go on welfare everday...the middle class is just about wiped out...

Polish hill is one of the few non violent low income areas we have in the city...maybe if we can figure out why that is, we can then apply that to other areas that are low income, so that we can have safe low income housing for the poor?

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Thinking outside the box for a moment...

Let's assume (just for this moment) a neighborhood like McKeesport is not going to return to its former glory. At that point, what is it's future?

Good points, Caladium.

As much as I whine about the lack of investment in these fallen post-industrial communities, I like them the way they are (aside from the demolitions of historic buildings, of course). If I could leave them in an arrested state of decay, I would. I think abandoned buildings are beautiful. Obviously, I advocate for abandoned buildings to be restored because I don't want them to become parking lots. Wheeling is on my sh*t list at the moment, because it seems every historic building in that city is at risk of being demolished. This is what happens when money leaves a community. All of the pride for the history and architecture of the community, among other things, leaves as well.

However, in spite of this, there are great opportunities. For example, if these communities weren't struggling, I would have never had the opportunity to make my dreams come true and own a historic row-house in a walkable, urban community. So, I've been able to have my cake and eat it, too. And all I have to put up with is some litter and the occasional wrecking ball swinging into something I love.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by WINDCHIMES

I do agree with you alleg angel...but who has the money to invest and fix these places, no one wants to raise their child around guns and drugs...these communities were once so beautiful and now people are afraid...I can't blame them...I grew up in one, I couldn't wait to get out...its depressing to be around people who are poor, bad streets, drug dealers...its no way to live...or to raise your children...its sad, I do agree with you. Today people are fighting to keep their jobs, just to stay afloat, more and more people go on welfare everday...the middle class is just about wiped out...

I understand. Nobody wants to live around undesirable neighbors and drug dealers. I'm not really blaming the people who won't move to these communities now, in their depressed state, but the people who left when they were still nice. Because that is what happened. People left these older communities for the suburbs, or greener pastures, back when they were still pretty decent. I realize a lot of this had to do with the economy and finding jobs, but I think more of it had to do with suburbanization.

Polish hill is one of the few non violent low income areas we have in the city...maybe if we can figure out why that is, we can then apply that to other areas that are low income, so that we can have safe low income housing for the poor?

Oh, there are actually quite a few safe, low-income neighborhoods in the city (and outside of it). I don't think any of them are without the regular low-income problems, though, such as blight, litter, and drugs. I think the real question is why some low-income areas become war-zones like Duquesne, and others are rather tranquil, like Brackenridge.

[Sealtite]

Originally Posted by mckeesport_alum

No official boundaries, however I see it as the streets of Carnegie, Library, Manor, & Bailie, east of Cornell and west of Union (basically Coursin St).

Just tried to check out Carnegie street on Google Earth. Apparently even the Google Earth Street-View mobile driver wanted to get the hell outta Mckeesport as quickly as possible, as it appears they just skirted through the city like they would a small podunk town.

[PreservationPioneer]

Since we are talking about McKeesport, I figured I would link to my recent McKeesport photo tour:

Discovering Historic Pittsburgh: McKeesport: "Long-Abandoned Ruins of the Dreams You Left Behind"

[Caladium]

Always nice to look at that photo tour again. By the way, I hope you're adding your newer ones to the master list.

[SuburbanPioneer]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I'm not really blaming the people who won't move to these communities now, in their depressed state, but the people who left when they were still nice. Because that is what happened. People left these older communities for the suburbs, or greener pastures, back when they were still pretty decent. I realize a lot of this had to do with the economy and finding jobs, but I think more of it had to do with suburbanization.

I could perhaps shine some light on this subject as I have just had this experience, and it is still fresh and somewhat painful. I moved away from Penn Hills some time ago. Penn Hills used to be one of the nicest places to live in back in the 50s, but look at it now. Admittedly, I'm not that old to have lived there since then, but I have made a mistake moving there much later. Arguably, what happened to Penn Hills recently resembles what had happened to older, what is now considered 'historic', towns in the past. Why is Penn Hills deteriorating? Some say it's because of the people moving in and not because of the people leaving, but I won't be the judge of that.

While in Penn Hills, I lived in what people still refer to as a "pretty decent" part of the municipality, east of Rodi Rd. As the neighborhood started to deteriorate slowly, people started to move out. Those who stayed began to fight to keep the neighborhood attractive. Lot's of volunteers (yours truly included) cleaning parks and roads on a regular basis. Kids making fliers about how "cool" their neighborhood is. Parents creating very active associations to maintain good performance of the school district(Doug Salah's PennHillsParents.org anyone?). The effort is still going on, but I decided to move out.

I'm really good at what I do for a living and I am passionate about it. Spending time fighting to keep my old neighborhood alive is just not the best use of my time. Coming home every night to see the neighborhood slowly deteriorating started to get too depressing making me think what I can do to prevent it instead of focusing on things where my talent is applicable. And so I eventually moved out, just so that I can concentrate on things that I like, things that I'm really good at in the hope that what I do makes a difference somewhere else and benefits others.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Thinking outside the box for a moment...

Let's assume (just for this moment) a neighborhood like McKeesport is not going to return to its former glory. At that point, what is it's future?

1. Maybe it's future is to house low income/ghetto neighborhoods. If so, is that such a bad future? Low income neighborhoods have to be somewhere, and in a way you could take pride that lower income residents get a very nice, convenient place to live with a few pretty buildings to look at. Maybe those buildings would inspire a few people. Maybe it would draw artists.

I doubt that will be the result. Low income neighborhoods have poor upkeep and just get worse. Once a neighborhood falls down, it's hard to bring it up again unless urban pioneers embrace it for gentrification. The desired trend, and it can be controversial, is to spread out the low income housing so there are no "bad areas" of town.

2. If the neighborhood becomes horribly abandoned, maybe it's future is to become a large park. Something along the lines of Harpers Ferry, which is a park that has a lot of open area but also a working downtown, a few residents who still live there, and many historic buildings that are set up as quasi museums/businesses. Wouldn't that be an incredible thing for Pittsburgh to have someday?

Um...you mean let it return back to nature? I think former McKeesport residents' thoughts on your spin on things would be...


Planet of the Apes (1968 Movie End Edit) - YouTube

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[CarrieHa]

Hi again. Well I did give up the idea of getting my Grandfathers house. Crime yes. about 50 police to 20,000 people yes. It is also the blight, no corner stores, neighborhood bars. possibly no neighbors, no public transportation all of which are perks if living in an urban environment.