2010 Report: PGH with most affordable housing among Top 100 metros (Philadelphia: violent crime, buying a house)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Being #42 of every county in the entire country for high taxes as % of home value is pretty bad.

As always, that is one of the side effects of relatively low home values as a ratio of incomes.

[okaydorothy]

Just wait til you live on Long island. It is horrendous with property taxes and the increase just keeps happening.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Allegheny County increased its property tax rate by 1 mill. That isn't going to significantly affect any of this.

Edit: By the way, it will be less than 1 mill following the reassessment becoming effective.

I love how you sugar coat taxes ALL the time. Allegheny Country increased their taxes by 22%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello? Stop pretending it is nothing. 22% is huge! Of course they smartly plugged that in before the reassessment, so we can pretend the windfall thing is real. Sure, whatever you say brian. I have a toll bridge I will sell you in death valley. I assure you the scorpions pay tolls and you will make a bundle. Where were you when I was selling homes? I could have sold you anything.

[gg]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

Just wait til you live on Long island. It is horrendous with property taxes and the increase just keeps happening.

They make a lot more money out that way than we do. Also, they have trains and all kind of transit, not to mention beaches, oh and a little city called NY. Sure you are going to pay a bundle if you are anywhere near NYC. Lets compare Pittsburgh with places that you can compare it to. Cleveland and Buffalo. Not DC and NYC. I mean you can take a train between them in less than 3 hours. They have real amenities. We can't compete with that kind of thing. Pittsburgh is tiny.

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

They make a lot more money out that way than we do. Also, they have trains and all kind of transit, not to mention beaches, oh and a little city called NY. Sure you are going to pay a bundle if you are anywhere near NYC. Lets compare Pittsburgh with places that you can compare it to. Cleveland and Buffalo. Not DC and NYC. I mean you can take a train between them in less than 3 hours. They have real amenities. We can't compete with that kind of thing. Pittsburgh is tiny.

and of course prices are a fraction of what they are in ny

[Debbie1125]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

Your point about taxes is irrelevant to the discussion.

I don't think property taxes or other taxes are irrelevant in a discussion on the affordability of homes.

Property taxes can add significantly to a mortgage payment. Sure Pittsburgh has affordable housing in comparison to larger cities like Philly and NYC. However when I did comparisons on Zillow where the property taxes were available, Pittsburgh's were twice as high on the lower priced homes ($80,000 to $100,000) than Philadelphia.

I am considering a move to Pittsburgh in the future. However the property taxes and transit situation will weigh high on whether I decide to relocate there or to another state entirely.

[BrianTH]

Certainly property taxes are part of the cost of ownership, but you want to be careful with comparisons: you want to compare property taxes on properties you consider equally desirable, not on properties that are priced the same. Also, you should make sure you are considering the other costs of ownership, such as the opportunity cost of capital and insurance, plus utilities, transportation costs dependent on home location, and so on.

I think you will find that when you compare apples to apples, it is very hard for differences in property tax rates to make up for all the other costs resulting from a comparable property having a significantly higher purchase price (in other words, it is only likely to make a difference if truly comparable properties are close to the same price to begin with). Nonetheless, for purposes such as budgeting (including determining a budget for purchase), obviously it is important to include property taxes.

[globalburgh]

Originally Posted by Debbie1125

I don't think property taxes or other taxes are irrelevant in a discussion on the affordability of homes.

Property taxes can add significantly to a mortgage payment. Sure Pittsburgh has affordable housing in comparison to larger cities like Philly and NYC. However when I did comparisons on Zillow where the property taxes were available, Pittsburgh's were twice as high on the lower priced homes ($80,000 to $100,000) than Philadelphia.

I am considering a move to Pittsburgh in the future. However the property taxes and transit situation will weigh high on whether I decide to relocate there or to another state entirely.

Property taxes for all metros are relevant to the discussion. Prattling on and on about only Pittsburgh isn't. As you point out, a comparison to other markets is prudent. You might add how much house you get for $80,000-$100,000. The quality of the neighborhood and school district matters, too. You might also look at other taxes. The overall tax picture is complicated.

The property tax issue doesn't diminish the value of the metrics referenced in the OP. In Pittsburgh, you can get a lot of house at a low price along with a job with a good wage. In booming areas (e.g. Seattle), good luck finding any house you can afford. Pittsburgh is, indeed, more affordable than many markets that have lower property tax rates.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Certainly property taxes are part of the cost of ownership, but you want to be careful with comparisons: you want to compare property taxes on properties you consider equally desirable, not on properties that are priced the same. Also, you should make sure you are considering the other costs of ownership, such as the opportunity cost of capital and insurance, plus utilities, transportation costs dependent on home location, and so on.

I think you will find that when you compare apples to apples, it is very hard for differences in property tax rates to make up for all the other costs resulting from a comparable property having a significantly higher purchase price (in other words, it is only likely to make a difference if truly comparable properties are close to the same price to begin with). Nonetheless, for purposes such as budgeting (including determining a budget for purchase), obviously it is important to include property taxes.

Problem with our region is it is wildly expensive to live in a better neighborhood. Sure you can live in Homewood and the Hill cheap, but what if you want to live in other parts of the East End. You save you money and can afford a $250K home or even a $300K home. Sure you still can't live in Shadyside, but maybe parts of Point Breeze or Friendship. What about the South Side? Allegheny East? The War Streets? Look at that tax bill. You saved your money and are buying an expensive home for Pittsburgh standards, but is it expensive? Look at Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Point Breeze, Oakland, Friendship, Highland Park and other neighborhoods that are safe. $250? Not everyone want to live in Wilkinsburg. They don't feel safe enough there. Pittsburgh is expensive because the more expensive homes have a wildly high tax bill. That is the reason I cannot live there, unless I take a shot at Point Breeze next to Homewood.

Why are the tax bills so high? The millage rates reflect the HUGE poverty problem we have in the city limits. That is the real reality. Sure Brian, Pittsburgh is affordable if you take all the properties in the city limits and pull out the median home price, but if you take out neighborhoods that aren't filled with crime, Pittsburgh is expensive. Everyone has a comfort level. Most suburb types can't afford the city because the drastic differences in price in neighborhoods.

[gg]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

You might add how much house you get for $80,000-$100,000.

Where are you living for that? Certainly a fringe area at best. Don't kid yourself, if you want to live in a safe area, you are going to pay over $200K.