Let's go Bucs!!! (Pittsburgh: appointed, long term, invest)

[sskink]

When all is said and done, playing game 163 is better than not playing game 163. But playing game 164 would be a whole lot better.

They've got three more years of Cutch and the newfound knowledge that a WC berth ain't enough.

I start the offseason by saying goodbye to Pedro and Ike. That's $9-10 mill to put towards something useful. And maybe you even get something for Pedro.

[Copanut]

Definitely Ike, still not sure about Pedro.

[sskink]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Definitely Ike, still not sure about Pedro.

Time for Pedro to go, IMO.

Taking a page from Moneyball, let's assume Bucs are going to lose Martin. That's 5 WAR or so. Given there is no similar catcher out there, where do you make back 5 WAR assuming you're going to play Polanco full time next year (who might or might not be a big contributor)?

First base. Are you going to get a bunch of that WAR back with Pedro? Likely not.

So you get creative, not through overpriced FAs (and there aren't many good position ones out there). Personally, I think something like getting Plouffe from Twins would be an interesting idea. Move Harrison to 2b, Walker to 1b (which eliminates need for a platoon). Plouffe gives you a solid defensive 3b with better offense than you get from current 1b platoon, so that's a net gain. Odds are good Harrison gives you better range and OBP at 2b. Walker solves the need to look for more 1b and has proven he can hit for decent power. That kind of move should contribute 3-4 WAR to IF. You get at least some dWAR back with a catcher like Soto (or Avila, but at what prospect cost?). And you still have a balance of a few million to go get a good starter. If Nutting would extend payroll to $100 mill, that could be an excellent starter. And if Martin doesn't sign whatever "generous" offer is extended, then you QO Liriano, who might take it.

If Martin does re-sign, you still do that and you've probably just become the #1 offense in NL. Then you could stick to a plan where you add one good starter and bolster the pen. With Kingham coming up early and Taillon mid-season, that ought to be enough. Once Morton is back, I look for the earliest opportunity to trade him and get whatever piece is missing to put the team over the top.

Not saying that's the exact set of deals to be made, but it's that kind of thinking Neal ought to be entertaining this offseason.

[Johnny C]

Funny how everyone is talking about position players and not about pitching. Bucs starting rotation next year will be missing at least 2 starters and the others have been shaky at best. Baseball is all about starting pitching and the Bucs will be average at best in this area.

They still have not won a playoff series since the early 90's and the next playoff game might not be until 2034.

At least the Stillers look unbeatable, the Pens win the cup every year, and Pitt / PSU football is dominant...

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by Johnny C

Funny how everyone is talking about position players and not about pitching. Bucs starting rotation next year will be missing at least 2 starters and the others have been shaky at best. Baseball is all about starting pitching and the Bucs will be average at best in this area.

They still have not won a playoff series since the early 90's and the next playoff game might not be until 2034.

At least the Stillers look unbeatable, the Pens win the cup every year, and Pitt / PSU football is dominant...

I still think adding one top quality starter such as Samardzija is preferable to two good, not great starters such as Liriano and Volquez. While I like those two, their stuff was inconsistent. Volquez performed well down the stretch but his lack of control surfaced under pressure. Cole, Samardzija, Morton, Worley, Kingham is better than this year's staff, provided Morton is healthy. Samardzija would cost a decent load of prospects but it shouldn't include the A-list prospects since he only has a year left on his contract and the A's will want to shed his ~$10 million arbitration salary.

I would also consider Locke to be done here. I'd have questions about their ability to contend if he is back in the 2015 rotation.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

How many? I asked all the people in my section last night and to a man they said no way. Seriously.

Impossible to say how many but there are many...even some here that have been saying all along they'll sign him. sskink has insisted that he will be signed and that "the Pirates will surprise even you".

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by SlurmsMcKenzie

I still think adding one top quality starter such as Samardzija is preferable to two good, not great starters such as Liriano and Volquez. While I like those two, their stuff was inconsistent. Volquez performed well down the stretch but his lack of control surfaced under pressure. Cole, Samardzija, Morton, Worley, Kingham is better than this year's staff, provided Morton is healthy. Samardzija would cost a decent load of prospects but it shouldn't include the A-list prospects since he only has a year left on his contract and the A's will want to shed his ~$10 million arbitration salary.

I would also consider Locke to be done here. I'd have questions about their ability to contend if he is back in the 2015 rotation.

They're not going to pay for a top quality starter.

Don't be surprised if Locke is pitching here next year.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny C

Funny how everyone is talking about position players and not about pitching. Bucs starting rotation next year will be missing at least 2 starters and the others have been shaky at best. Baseball is all about starting pitching and the Bucs will be average at best in this area.

They still have not won a playoff series since the early 90's and the next playoff game might not be until 2034.

At least the Stillers look unbeatable, the Pens win the cup every year, and Pitt / PSU football is dominant...

Bingo!

[UKWildcat1981]

Bucs lost to the SF Giants.. sadly the season ends.. but at least Pittsburgh has the Steelers and six Super Bowl trophies

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981

Bucs lost to the SF Giants.. sadly the season ends.. but at least Pittsburgh has the Steelers and six Super Bowl trophies

And the Stillers will see 7 before the Pirates ever see 6.