Is Pittsburgh Northeast or Midwest? (settling it once and for all) (Philadelphia: live in, vs)

[Evergrey]

Pittsburgh being "30 miles from Ohio" does not mean Pittsburgh is Midwestern... as those portions of Ohio are not Midwestern... but part of Northern Appalachia. Other than being contained within a political division that is usually contained within the Midwest region, places like Steubenville, Cadiz, Lisbon, etc. have few Midwestern characteristics.

[nei]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Pittsburgh being "30 miles from Ohio" does not mean Pittsburgh is Midwestern... as those portions of Ohio are not Midwestern... but part of Northern Appalachia. Other than being contained within a political division that is usually contained within the Midwest region, places like Steubenville, Cadiz, Lisbon, etc. have few Midwestern characteristics.

But those portions aren't northeastern, especially to someone from the coastal Northeast or New England. Most Northeasterners will visit and say the area is not northeastern and so must be Midwest. And Midwesterners will visit and say the area is not midwestern and so must be Northeast.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by nei

But those portions aren't northeastern, especially to someone from the coastal Northeast or New England. Most Northeasterners will visit and say the area is not northeastern and so must be Midwest. And Midwesterners will visit and say the area is not midwestern and so must be Northeast.

The problem is that you are assuming that the east coast, and the northeast are one in the same. That's where the problem comes in. The east coast is a part of the northeast, not the whole northeast. When people do this exercise, they tend to pick and choose the characteristics that suit their point of view, and ignore those that don't. Thus, to people who want to put Pittsburgh in the Midwest, something like "they say pop more than soda", is held as proof that Pittsburgh is Midwestern, while say, the fact that Pittsburgh has rowhouses, or narrow streets, or is much more closely built up than Cleveland or Detroit, is held as meaningless. The truth is, all cities that are near regional borders will exhibit some characteristics of cities on the other side of said border. State borders are not the end all and be all when it comes to determining regions, but it is just as foolish to ignore them as well. Being in the same state creates a flow between cities, that would not occur if they were in separate states.

[wanderlust76]

Whoever thinks Pittsburgh is Midwest has never looked at a map or can't read one. Then again I've talked to people from Erie that don't even know where Ohio is so....

[BrianTH]

I don't have a problem with saying Pittsburgh is in the Northeast in some broader sense. For that matter, I think you could say the same thing of the Great Lakes cities: if you divided the lower 48 into four quarters, the Great Lakes cities would be in the northeastern quarter (they certainly ain't in the Middle of the West--that would be something like Salt Lake City). And there would be some logic to doing that, since this quarter of the United States has a decent number of notable commonalities.

I think the problem arises when you start drawing a line between your definition of "the Northeast" and the "Midwest" between the Appalachians on one side and the Great Lakes on the other (or most of them--eastern portions of Lake Erie perhaps not), and then arguing that line is based on substantively much tighter internal connections on either side of that line, which would imply the Pittsburgh region has a special relationship with points east that it lacks with points west. That's not really correct, and hasn't been correct for the entire existence of the City of Pittsburgh, which was founded specifically because it served as a gateway and meeting point between points east and points west.

That said, I don't really care if people still want to call Pittsburgh "Northeastern" and the Great Lakes cities "Midwestern". But I do think people should be clear those are terms of convenience, and don't imply that the Pittsburgh region has a special relationship with the East Coast cities that it lacks with the Great Lakes cities. It has relationships both ways, and at the same time is its own thing.

[UKyank]

I don't care what geographic area one wants to associate Pittsburgh with but I'm tired of those that are championing its east coast/ northeast association purely because they see Midwest (or anything other then east coast) association as somehow inferior. There no reason to have a complex about geography.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I don't care what geographic area one wants to associate Pittsburgh with but I'm tired of those that are championing its east coast/ northeast association purely because they see Midwest (or anything other then east coast) association as somehow inferior. There no reason to have a complex about geography.

Same here. That's as pointless to me as trying to troll this forum by arguing ad nauseum that Pittsburgh is Midwestern, as if it would be a bad thing if it was.

[globalburgh]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That said, I don't really care if people still want to call Pittsburgh "Northeastern" and the Great Lakes cities "Midwestern". But I do think people should be clear those are terms of convenience, and don't imply that the Pittsburgh region has a special relationship with the East Coast cities that it lacks with the Great Lakes cities. It has relationships both ways, and at the same time is its own thing.

This shows up well in migration data. The watershed is Cleveland, which is split between Chicago and NYC. Pittsburgh decidedly favors NYC over Chicago. Further west in Detroit or even Cincinnati, you are in Chicagoland.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

This shows up well in migration data. The watershed is Cleveland, which is split between Chicago and NYC. Pittsburgh decidedly favors NYC over Chicago. Further west in Detroit or even Cincinnati, you are in Chicagoland.

Not sure that is true for Cincy. Saw an interesting discussion about Chicago's sphere of influence, that discussed the regions that come under Chicago's sway. Detroit, Indy, Milwaukee, and St. Louis were strongly tied to Chicago, but the ties of all of the Ohio cities, including Cincy, were substantially weaker, with Louisville and Pittsburgh's ties being insignificant.

[globalburgh]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Not sure that is true for Cincy. Saw an interesting discussion about Chicago's sphere of influence, that discussed the regions that come under Chicago's sway. Detroit, Indy, Milwaukee, and St. Louis were strongly tied to Chicago, but the ties of all of the Ohio cities, including Cincy, were substantially weaker, with Louisville and Pittsburgh's ties being insignificant.

Looking at IRS data from 1996-2010, Cincinnati's largest out of state migration trading partner is Chicago (3rd overall). Dayton is first, Columbus second. New York is 12th. LA is 9th.