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its not propaganda but economics. student loans are still widely available and subsidized. youre confusing that with reductions to direct subsidies. given the rampant construction of new facilities its obvious universities are making lots of money and not struggling. i worked though college to pay for things not covered.
As I've said in the past, I think the problem with higher education is as much about degree creep as student loans. Degrees have become mainly about proving you're smarter than the competition in general. In the old days, few went to college, so having a degree was a ticket to the middle class. As college education became more universal, an increasing number of professions, including journalists, clerks, cooks, and health care techs, began "requiring" some sort of college degree. Needless to say, they don't actually require these degrees, except everyone else gets them, so they must get them as well - if not pile another degree on top of this.
We'd be better off by far if we just had people take general aptitude tests for work. They've been shown to be more accurate than education or prior work experience in predicting productivity.
As I've said in the past, I think the problem with higher education is as much about degree creep as student loans. Degrees have become mainly about proving you're smarter than the competition in general. In the old days, few went to college, so having a degree was a ticket to the middle class. As college education became more universal, an increasing number of professions, including journalists, clerks, cooks, and health care techs, began "requiring" some sort of college degree. Needless to say, they don't actually require these degrees, except everyone else gets them, so they must get them as well - if not pile another degree on top of this.
We'd be better off by far if we just had people take general aptitude tests for work. They've been shown to be more accurate than education or prior work experience in predicting productivity.
I agree. The education requirements for many of today's jobs are a joke and completely unnecessary. I know quite a few people who get degrees and said they needed it or could have the job just a well right out of high school. College is a good investment for some jobs, but in respects it has become a scam IMO. It's actually amusing to me how many people think you need the "full college experience" to life a good or have a full life.
Aqua
Thanks for your earlier response to my questions.
Given the geography of the area, I can readily understand the 'bottlekneck" problem at intersections.
It's not as if all the hip young people leave a neighborhood behind for the next hip thing and all the sudden the storefronts are all vacant and the area is a hollowed-out shell. They're generally actively pushed out of the neighborhood, as they can't pay as much for rent as the yuppies.
I agree, sometimes yuppies take over in just the way you describe. But other times the trendy set move in, paying higher rents and so displacing the lower rent paying stores that had been there for years. Then the neighborhood stops being trendy, they move out and a vacant store is left behind. I've seen that happen a few times. To be fair these were things I saw happen a few decades ago, so maybe things have changed. All I know is I learned to be wary of cities and neighborhoods that suddenly become trendy. Although Hopes does make a valid point that the real problem is rising rents. The rents go up when a neighborhood becomes trendy but maybe it isn't fair to blame that on the people moving in. And, if the shop keepers lowered the rents they could probably lure the hardware store and vacuum repairman back. Maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
I also don't know what you mean in terms of transient people voting for new services. Generally speaking, transplants vote in local elections less than old-timers, and since many are young, they vote less in general. Generally speaking long-time residents have a disproportionate effect on the political process compared to transplants - which is why cities are often successful in slowing gentrification down, but seldom try to accelerate it unless they are in the absolute doldrums.
You haven't seen this happen in Pittsburgh? Boy, I'm happy for you. It's been a PITA problem for a few cities I've lived in, especially in California.
In some cities, the boosters for expensive projects that need to be voted on have learned to target the temporary residents--especially college kids and interns, but also the young people who are in town for a few years maybe to start a career or maybe because its a cool place to be. In the last few years, especially, it's been easier to get these groups to vote--and they target them to vote for all kinds of things. And while it's great to see them voting, I wish they wouldn't vote on community issues unless they truly intend to stay in the community for at least a decade. A lot of times they don't really understand the issues or the players, or why ideas have been rejected in earlier years. Unfortunately, it's easy to convince people who are only in town for a few years to vote for a whole laundry list of community services and other expensive things, since they won't ultimately have to pay the bill or deal with the logistics.
At the same time, you're right that in general transient residents vote less than the permanently settled residents. Thank god for that!
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman
many people argue, and probably correctly so, that the level of education attained in 12 grades could be attained in 10 grades. if americans stopped expecting so little from its youth you wouldn't need the 11th and 12th without losing any actual knowledge.
the problem with college is its cost, subsidized loans are a big part of it. subsidizing loans allow people to get larger loans which allows colleges to charge more. they should eliminate loan subsidies and increase grants to qualified individuals (though not enough to offset the lost loan amounts). learning the "arts" at a $35k /yr college on loans is probably not a smart idea and likely unnecessary. then let's talk about the textbook game in which students are ripped off by colleges colluding with companies.
Your idea makes sense, but grants would more than likely put the burden of funding back on the government, which would result in increased taxes. The main issues influencing the cost of higher education that I see on a daily basis are as follows:
1) The explosion of administrator pay because many administrators are now expected to be more "business minded" and there is an endless free agency associated with these jobs. In other words, we have deans, athletic directors, coaches, presidents, provosts, etc. making literally hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. At some universities top administrator pay is 5 or even 10 times the pay of top faculty members.
2) Lack of government investment or funding for not only public universities, but also private colleges and universities. The opposite of what you posted above is currently happening and while there are more and more students, there is less money available in the form of grants for these students. Much of the government money available for higher education goes directly to research and cannot be used to offset the increased costs of tuition.
3) There is also significant waste at many universities and much of it is related to becoming more "business oriented." Most universities are large, not for profit institutions and they are unique organizations. I have seen a significant amount of waste in higher education where money is being spent on hiring consultants and efficiency experts that at the end of the day do not understand the unique nature of higher education. There is also a significant amount of waste spent on upgrading and improving facilities in order to compete with peer institutions. For instance, many colleges now have dorms that are apartment style or condo living, climbing walls, new recreation centers, new sports facilities, gourmet dining options, campus wide Wi-Fi (even outside), parking, etc. In other words, many things that most of us would consider luxuries when we were in college are now commonplace and there is currently an "Arms Race" to have the best facilities when compared to peer institutions. Notice I did not mention renovations or additions of classrooms and labs, because these still exist, but since they are related to the core mission of most universities I don't view them as wasteful spending.
4) Rising costs associated with IT are also a major driver in tuition increases. Delivering classes is becoming more expensive and much of this is because of online course management, hybrid course management, and offering classes in mobile formats. Many universities are also offering Massively Open Online Courses (MOOCs), which are highly expensive to manage and "free" to the students. These courses sometimes offer the student the ability to take the class for college credit by taking a test at the end of the course and paying a small fee. However, since this fee does not even offset the IT and instructional design fees, universities are often forced to subsidize these courses with tuition money from traditional face to face students or full paying online students.
There are some other issues associated with the cost of higher education, this is just what I see on a daily basis. As a final point, I don't view student loans as the problem because if student loans disappeared many universities would simply find full paying domestic or international students and only service the wealthy. It would just be a change to the business model rather than a solution to the problem. I much more for reducing costs than only offering higher education to small portion of people. One of the great things about the American Dream is the idea that one can better their situation through education, invention, or hard work.
Related to the sub-discussion regarding Pittsburgh wages, a report on "Where does Pittsburgh rank in the top 100 highest paying job markets" came out in today's Pittsburgh Business Times. Obviously it has to do with the types and number of jobs in a region. This ranking is for "all employees in all jobs."
Excerpt: "An On Numbers analysis of the annual pay of all employees in major markets ranks Pittsburgh at No. 48 with an average salary of $44,270. That's well below No. 1 on the list, San Jose, Calif., which had an average annual pay of $69,670, as well as the highest-ranked region in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia ($50,310). It also was slightly behind another Pennsylvania metro region, $44,750 for No. 42 Harrisburg."
Maybe the complaining isn't new, but what is new is that they are righfully complaining. The article I linked to is evidence of that; having a degree (or at least having student debt) now makes you less likely to own a home or have a car loan. That surprised even me and it's very concerning.
What's also new is the amount of student debt. Maybe it was frustrating to pay $150 a month in the 80s while a plumber made more than you, but it's downright depressing to pay 4 or 5 times that amount while a plumber still makes more than you. Hell, a few years ago I was making less than my barista and fry cook friends after accounting for student debt.
The problem is high education costs and low starting income for professionals. Plumbers aren't the problem. They're paid according to demand. There's a heck of a lot more liberal arts majors out there than plumbers. Same with accountants. The difference is that accountants have a chance at surpassing plumbers in lifetime earnings. Plumbers sort of top out after 10 to 15 years of experience unless they go into business for themselves. The liberal arts majors didn't do their homework. Education costs X and income will likely be X. It's simple math. The best student loan forgiveness legislation would allow students to postpone their payments until they are in their 40s, when they are earning the most. Lenders would have a better chance of being repaid instead of forgiving loans in the early years and credit woudln't be ruined.
This already exists. Though there's a downside to that loan forgiveness. Whatever year it's forgiven in, the amount remaining is considered income for that year by the IRS and you owe taxes on it. So if you get $50K forgiven, then suddenly you have $50K extra income that year and have to come up with the taxes for it.
The same happens after foreclosures. It's mindboggling.
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Originally Posted by sparrowmint
This applies to the loan forgiveness due to length of time, however, not the loan forgiveness on the basis of public service.
Related to the sub-discussion regarding Pittsburgh wages, a report on "Where does Pittsburgh rank in the top 100 highest paying job markets" came out in today's Pittsburgh Business Times. Obviously it has to do with the types and number of jobs in a region. This ranking is for "all employees in all jobs."
Excerpt: "An On Numbers analysis of the annual pay of all employees in major markets ranks Pittsburgh at No. 48 with an average salary of $44,270. That's well below No. 1 on the list, San Jose, Calif., which had an average annual pay of $69,670, as well as the highest-ranked region in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia ($50,310). It also was slightly behind another Pennsylvania metro region, $44,750 for No. 42 Harrisburg."
Thanks for sharing. It's not just the types and numbers of the jobs. National companies adjust salaries according to cost of living in different cities. Two employees with the same position, education, experience, etc., for the same company will earn completely different salaries if living in San Jose or Pittsburgh.
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