Thoughts on the next Pittsburgh neighborhood to gentrify? (Washington, Butler: real estate, apartment complex)

[eschaton]

As I mentioned in another thread, I think it's pretty much unquestioned that this decade is the time to shine for Lawrenceville and East Liberty. Lawrenceville is just having absolutely crazy real estate appreciation now (while South Side, the former poster-child for gentrification, has stalled out due to the downsides of so many bars in the neighborhood). East Liberty has seen relatively little residential gentrification so far, but given the crazy levels of redevelopment in the works over the next few years in and around Penn Circle, it's clearly getting ready to explode.

Where do folks see the next major areas as being?

I don't think you're going to see the neighborhoods which have seen appreciation, but no major structural changes, like Bloomfield or Polish Hill, just take off into the stratosphere. Similarly, more condos and apartments will go into Downtown and the Strip District, but this won't really be a new or surprising thing.

Three ideas - not the likeliest.

Troy Hill - the last cheap Pittsburgh neighborhood which has it all - or at least, the bones of having it all. Historic housing, dense urban feel, largely intact, and the vestiges of a business district. On the whole it's like a larger, more attractive Polish Hill in a slightly less convenient location.

Larimer - Okay, laugh all you want. But the Frankstown-Hamilton corridor is already incubating some interesting businesses. If this corridor turns into a desirable destination, it will be very easy to redevelop Larimer in stages, considering how much of the neighborhood has already been lost.

Hazelwood - The redevelopment of the ALMONO site has big potential implications for Hazelwood, and based upon location and public schools, it really should be a desirable area. That said, there's a lot to push up against, in terms of the high levels of blight in the neighborhood. I'd say it's 20 years away or more, but probably going to happen quicker than anything in Homewood.

[I_Like_Spam]

My guess would be Uptown- with the 5th Avenue High School apartment project, as well as the Consol and new Portal Place apartment complex on either end of the community, it might be ready to move.

UPMC's presence at Mercy as well as the thousands of Duquesne students nearby could be a catalyst.

[ferraris]

Of the three you listed, I think Hazelwood is the most likely. The closeness to Oakland and Downtown along with the LTV site is a recipe for success. And really, it's not that bad right now. It's certainly run down, but it's not an intimidating area to drive through or walk around (at least not in my opinion). If Hazelwood gentrifies, it will take Four Mile Run with it. In fact, the gentrification might even start in The Run, depending how the LTV site is done exactly. The Run is closer to Oakland and has drastically fewer issus with crime and abandoned buildings.

I'm surprised you didn't include Garfield on your list. I don't think Larimer will gentrify until Garfield has gentrified (at least in the flats). Other candidates I could see are Mt. Washington and Fineview. Mt. Washington for the same reasons you listed Troy Hill, and Fineview as the northside's counter to the South Side Slopes. Outside of that, I think there are a lot of areas that will improve, even improve a great deal, but not really "gentrify".

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

My guess would be Uptown- with the 5th Avenue High School apartment project, as well as the Consol and new Portal Place apartment complex on either end of the community, it might be ready to move.

UPMC's presence at Mercy as well as the thousands of Duquesne students nearby could be a catalyst.

So far it seems like a lot of the gentrification of Uptown will include demolitions, which is unfortunate. I think Fifth Ave High School is the exception there, not the norm.

[squarian]

The next neighborhood to gentrify will certainly be my neighborhood, so if you're lucky you'll buy property there right away and get in at the bottom. Hurry before it's too late - this could be your last chance, and you don't want to miss out, do you?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

My guess would be Uptown- with the 5th Avenue High School apartment project, as well as the Consol and new Portal Place apartment complex on either end of the community, it might be ready to move.

UPMC's presence at Mercy as well as the thousands of Duquesne students nearby could be a catalyst.

The problem with Uptown is so much of it is owned by that one family. Thus it will likely plod along pretty slowly for a long time, and then BAM directly into gentrified overnight. Certainly because no (non-wrecked) houses ever go on the market seeing any homeowner-involved gentrification similar to the Mexican War Streets is impossible.

I do like Uptown though. It's like a mini-Lawrenceville. Only with crappy zoning, and occasional drug shootings.

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Of the three you listed, I think Hazelwood is the most likely. The closeness to Oakland and Downtown along with the LTV site is a recipe for success. And really, it's not that bad right now. It's certainly run down, but it's not an intimidating area to drive through or walk around (at least not in my opinion).

True enough. Really, all Hazelwood needs is some interesting things on Second Avenue.

My wife kinda scared me though with a comment she made. Her architecture firm is working on ALMONO, and she said part of the idea is to create a road along the river for traffic, to make Second Avenue not be so heavily used by cars traveling from Oakland to the Glenwood Bridge, and return it to a "neighborhood street." It seems like an awful urban planning idea - I think part of the reason East Carson and Butler are so successful is because they are also major traffic arteries. It could kill what's left of the Second Avenue business district.

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

If Hazelwood gentrifies, it will take Four Mile Run with it. In fact, the gentrification might even start in The Run, depending how the LTV site is done exactly. The Run is closer to Oakland and has drastically fewer issues with crime and abandoned buildings.

True, but I see two issues. One is The Run has no bus service - you need to walk to Greenfield Avenue to catch a bus. The other is virtually every house in The Run (which I do like as a neighborhood overall) is butt ugly with few historic features remaining. So it's neither very convenient, nor attractive to preservationists.

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

I'm surprised you didn't include Garfield on your list. I don't think Larimer will gentrify until Garfield has gentrified (at least in the flats).

I think BGC really screwed the pooch when it came to infill housing in Garfield. The new stuff being built is all really cheap suburban-style housing on small lots, and I think it's going to do a lot to make Garfield less attractive. I mean, I could see gentrification pushing a block or two in a decade from now, but I think it's going to be much slower going than it could have been.

[The King of Um]

Here's a magnificent Second Empire brick rowhouse that went for relatively little in Uptown--and it appears to be in excellent shape, too. It seems someone got really lucky here. 16 Seneca St, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 - Zillow

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Here's a magnificent Second Empire brick rowhouse that went for relatively little in Uptown--and it appears to be in excellent shape, too. It appears someone got really lucky here. 16 Seneca St, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 - Zillow

Gorgeous!

[ferraris]

I'm not sure that having to walk to Greenfield Ave for a bus is that big of a deal. It's not that far and there are public stairs as well. The potential to walk or bike along Panther Hollow Trail and the Jail Trail is also a big factor. You're right about the housing being generally unattractive, though. Maybe it will end up being primarily student housing, they don't care about the houses themselves and the closeness to campus and whatever pops up in the LTV site could be a big plus to them.

[Clint.]

My instinct is to say Hazelwood, depending on what happens with the old LTV site. Maybe it won't be the next to gentrify, but it seems to have a lot of potential to be a real nice residential neighborhood with a cool business district. The business district is shot (Thieves cause Hazelwood grocery to give up), but it could be nice with enough disposable income in the area - plus, Second Ave. is flanked by residences. Although, if LTV turns into anything like The Waterfront I guess Second Ave. will benefit about as much as Eight Ave. in Homestead did.

There are a lot of solid looking homes and a mix of styles to appeal to a variety of potential buyers. It has the dense row housing that some people like (Blair St.) to give it a very urban feel, and also quite a few single family homes with little yards that may appeal to others. Someday the School Board will probably sell Gladstone to a developer to turn into apartments. The river access could potentially be really interesting, too.

Whatever happens at LTV it should be done prudently and include minimal retail - there is plenty of that nearby and at this point additional retail will only siphon customers from nearby sites (like the new developer will care about that, ha, ha...and I doubt the City will care, either). The worst thing to do would be to overbuild the retail component. Residential and forested parkland should be a priority; maybe plant a bunch of hazel trees.* But I guess trees don't pay rent or taxes and that is what these things are about, so we'll see about that. The demand isn't there to build a thriving area overnight so there should be no rush to throw together a bunch of bland offices and housing expecting people to rush into it.

New project in works for LTV site in Hazelwood - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

*Would the hazel nuts be edible if grown in the soil there?