Worse to be born poor in Allegheny vs neighboring counties? (Clarion: insurance, home)

[NatureLovinMom]

Can we all agree though, that one of the reasons given in the article is almost certainly causation: crime. Which begs many more questions:
why IS crime higher? How can it be fixed? Who bears responsibility for it to be fixed? Where's the money gonna come from?

Lastly, I wonder if this study even takes into account the children 'lost' -- meaning the ones gunned down or stabbed to death or overdosed on drugs or hit by cars of drivers under an influence or the idiot who shoots a kid while cleaning his unregistered weapon. Those kids income loss probably isn't even represented in this date...but they'll certainly never get the chance to make an income.

And those questions are applicable to all urban areas, not only allegheny county, but all areas shaded other than blue in this research.

[North Beach Person]

Having been one of those "poor" kids that grew up in the rural area of PA (McKean and Jefferson Counties) one of the explanations may be that in many of those areas all the kids, rich and poor, attend the same schools so there's a mixing of all income levels. In more urban areas like Pittsburgh the schools reflect the overall attendance area, which can be all poor, all middle class or all wealthy, but rarely a mix.

I will say, though, that those kids who were perceived as living "on the wrong side of the tracks" when I lived there were treated differently.

Keep in mind that the whole area, someone mentioned Clarion County, has been devastated over the last 30 years with the coal companies going out of business (although that's coming back in a small way), the major manufacturers closing down (various glass and other factories), railroads abandoning trackage with some of the short lines going bankrupt, and even Penn-Traffic going bankrupt, closing down its Riverside/Bi Lo grocery chain which employed hundreds, if not thousands, of people in fairly well paying union jobs.

Fracking has the potential to replace some of those jobs, not in the exploration end but in well services.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The real question is why. Is there something the government can do? Why aren't the government based programs like affirmative action helping to even out the statistics? Is this more about Pittsburgh and the continued fallout from the collapse of industry in the past generation, which may have affected blacks more?

In practice, affirmative action mostly benefits those not in poverty. For example, allowing those who are lower-middle class to have a shot at becoming upper-middle class. IMHO if our goal was more straight-up poverty reduction direct income transfers would be much more effective.

Originally Posted by theta_sigma

This is exactly what I was coming in to say. Correlation=/= causation. It isn't being in Allegheny county that causes the majority of these effects, it's being black anywhere in the country. It just happens that poor people in Allegheny county are much more likely to be black than in butler or clarion countries.

Yeah. if you choose to zoom out of the default Allegheny County view, you can clearly see the association. The most "red" counties are found in the South - particularly areas of Western Mississippi which are 70%-90% black. In contrast, the "bluest" counties are found in places like Iowa, Minnesota, and Utah - places where people are overwhelmingly white.

Mind you, I've seen other studies which suggest it isn't just a straight-up racial association. For whatever reason, poor whites have lower social mobility if they live in the same metro with a lot of poor blacks, as opposed to living in a metro with few poor blacks. It may be in part due to the reasons you mention - the Midwestern and Western states with higher levels of social mobility tend to not only be white, but more supportive of robust social safety nets in general - perhaps because the hypothetical face of poverty isn't black.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by theta_sigma

As to the why? Racism. Fixing poverty costs a lot of public money and many studies have shown that people are much less likely to support programs that they perceive as mostly benefiting people of other races and cultures. If the public perception of the face of poverty were white (add it was during the depression) we'd have a new new deal by now.

I agree with this, but only partly.

There ARE numerous programs and benefits people of meager incomes can take advantage of, from the federal level all the way to the local level.

There are so many people that have worked themselves out of poverty.

And, this is inaccurate...

If the public perception of the face of poverty were white (add it was during the depression) we'd have a new new deal by now.

...for a number of reasons: there ARE poor whites, as other whites are aware; there ARE middle class or higher blacks, and again, whites are aware of this; suppose the face of poverty WERE white - that does not mean we'd become a welfare state to save their souls - again, there are numerous social services where people can get help for their situations.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

I agree with this, but only partly.

There ARE numerous programs and benefits people of meager incomes can take advantage of, from the federal level all the way to the local level.

There are so many people that have worked themselves out of poverty.

And, this is inaccurate...

If the public perception of the face of poverty were white (add it was during the depression) we'd have a new new deal by now.

...for a number of reasons: there ARE poor whites, as other whites are aware; there ARE middle class or higher blacks, and again, whites are aware of this; suppose the face of poverty WERE white - that does not mean we'd become a welfare state to save their souls - again, there are numerous social services where people can get help for their situations.

Just curious... have you ever been in the position to seek public assistance? I think that too many assume that it is easy to get if needed. That's simply not the reality, as I've learned from the people I know who have sought the help..

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Merge

Just curious... have you ever been in the position to seek public assistance? I think that too many assume that it is easy to get if needed. That's simply not the reality, as I've learned from the people I know who have sought the help..

Yes, I have been in that position. You know what I did, though? I fulfilled my obligation by submitting employment search verification. I looked for any job that could I could schedule with another. I was up to three jobs at one point.

If you question this, you have no idea what I am talking about. There are, for the needy, jobs training programs, places to get food and clothes, grants for adult education...I don't just mean a check from the government.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

Yes, I have been in that position. You know what I did, though? I fulfilled my obligation by submitting employment search verification. I looked for any job that could I could schedule with another. I was up to three jobs at one point.

If you question this, you have no idea what I am talking about. There are, for the needy, jobs training programs, places to get food and clothes, grants for adult education...I don't just mean a check from the government.

yeah, you're right... I have no idea about what you are talking about... when someone starts throwing terms like "welfare state" around, they do tend to introduce generalized confusion into the debate.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Merge

yeah, you're right... I have no idea about what you are talking about... when someone starts throwing terms like "welfare state" around, they do tend to introduce generalized confusion into the debate.

Someone proposed a scenario where the multitudes of poor would be white, and in that scenario, it was implied that government benefits would become extremely generous. To work with that, I described the scenario as a welfare state!

[Merge]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

Someone proposed a scenario where the multitudes of poor would be white, and in that scenario, it was implied that government benefits would become extremely generous. To work with that, I described the scenario as a welfare state!

I get it now... but what a loaded, inflammatory, term that is!

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Merge

I get it now... but what a loaded, inflammatory, term that is!

Inflammatory? Not meant to be.