What does Pittsburgh lack? (Erie, Scottdale: credit, loan, purchasing)

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Pittsburgh lacks an arial tram/gondola system. We totally need to get on that.

[Faer]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Why is rail necessary? We are very quickly leaving the age of train transit within cities. Come to the east coast and live for 6 months. It's really not all it's cracked up to be. Not to mention, the drain on the capital of the region is so incredibly massive. Who knows what else could have been done with the hundreds of billions of dollars!

And we don't really even have true light rail. We have a fragment of a trolly system pretending to be a subway. It has poor acceleration, low maximum speed, its expensive, and really limited in who it serves. Dedicated ROWs are what matter, not choo-choo vs beep-beep. Unpopular opinion of the year: the T should eventually get scrapped in favor of smaller driverless electro busses (possibly natural gas hybrid or trolly bus, guided track) that use the tunnels downtown to integrate all the busways into single connected ROW system.

The state really ruined inner city transportation about 100 years ago. Now we are stuck not knowing what the best way to get around actually is since it's all state owned and socialized.

Uh no. The market died for rail when cars became common during the suburbanization of the country post WWII. Pittsburgh had one of the most extensive commuter rail systems in the country. Those passenger rail companies all went out of business. The track that still exists for transit (as well as the busways) was that which the newly formed PAT salvaged before the freight companies could move in and grab any more abandoned ROWs. In other parts of the country, like LA, the auto companies simply bought and shut down rail lines to reduce competition. It wasn't "Teh government."

[krogerDisco]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

Pittsburgh lacks an arial tram/gondola system. We totally need to get on that.

Where is that a demonstrated success?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Faer

Uh no. The market died for rail when cars became common during the suburbanization of the country post WWII. Pittsburgh had one of the most extensive commuter rail systems in the country. Those passenger rail companies all went out of business. The track that still exists for transit (as well as the busways) was that which the newly formed PAT salvaged before the freight companies could move in and grab any more abandoned ROWs. In other parts of the country, like LA, the auto companies simply bought and shut down rail lines to reduce competition. It wasn't "Teh government."

So how did suburbanization happen? Was that a free market development? Did entrepreneurs come together to demolish inner city neighborhoods to build highways? Or was that the government?

Do you have any curiosity at all about the state's ability to infect markets?

Doesn't look like it. Please don't be so ignorant in the future.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

Pittsburgh lacks an arial tram/gondola system. We totally need to get on that.

It's not fair that Pittsburgh doesn't have a gondola system. It's current year! Think of the jobs it would create.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

So how did suburbanization happen? Was that a free market development? Did entrepreneurs come together to demolish inner city neighborhoods to build highways? Or was that the government?

Do you have any curiosity at all about the state's ability to infect markets?

Doesn't look like it. Please don't be so ignorant in the future.

It was more like the federal government created new types of loans that encouraged suburban building. Then the state, federal, and local government closed the deal by thinking it smart to put the interstates directly through the city. Sprinkle in a little white flight and voila!

[Faer]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

So how did suburbanization happen? Was that a free market development? Did entrepreneurs come together to demolish inner city neighborhoods to build highways? Or was that the government?

Do you have any curiosity at all about the state's ability to infect markets?

Doesn't look like it. Please don't be so ignorant in the future.

Wow, aren't you a smug one. Why ask questions if you are just going to answer them yourself?

First we were talking about rail, then you said

The state really ruined inner city transportation about 100 years ago. Now we are stuck not knowing what the best way to get around actually is since it's all state owned and socialized.

and now you are talking about highways. Who doesn't know how to find an on ramp? Sounds like a goalpost shift to me.

If you wanted to talk about how large road construction increased sprawl and was often directly damaging to inner city neighborhoods, and how this all took a bite into other transit, et etc, or how governments incentivized suburbanization, even to the point of wrecking city neighborhoods, I'd be right there with you. However, the US highway system (est. 1926) was in place LONG before post WWII suburbanization got underway place, and that suburbanization was already underway when Eisenhower began the interstate program (est. 1956). Suburbanization happened because Americans post WWII became middle class, more prosperous, cars became cheaper and this provided people had a level of mobility they never had before. The bought cars and moved to a bigger house on a 1/4 acre lot in the burbs because they could. This seemed an obvious better deal to people. They weren't cognizant of the traffic issues we have today, or rising fuel costs, or pollution, or even the issues created by sprawl. And thus transit usage declined. I'm more than willing to point the finger at where issue lay, private or public, but to deny free market forces had a huge affect on suburbanization is silly - it wasn't even possible without purchasing a product on the free market. Please don't be so condescending in the future.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Faer

Wow, aren't you a smug one. Why ask questions if you are just going to answer them yourself?

First we were talking about rail, then you said



and now you are talking about highways. Who doesn't know how to find an on ramp? Sounds like a goalpost shift to me.

If you wanted to talk about how large road construction increased sprawl and was often directly damaging to inner city neighborhoods, and how this all took a bite into other transit, et etc, or how governments incentivized suburbanization, even to the point of wrecking city neighborhoods, I'd be right there with you. However, the US highway system (est. 1926) was in place LONG before post WWII suburbanization got underway place, and that suburbanization was already underway when Eisenhower began the interstate program (est. 1956). Suburbanization happened because Americans post WWII became middle class, more prosperous, cars became cheaper and this provided people had a level of mobility they never had before. The bought cars and moved to a bigger house on a 1/4 acre lot in the burbs because they could. This seemed an obvious better deal to people. They weren't cognizant of the traffic issues we have today, or rising fuel costs, or pollution, or even the issues created by sprawl. And thus transit usage declined. I'm more than willing to point the finger at where issue lay, private or public, but to deny free market forces had a huge affect on suburbanization is silly - it wasn't even possible without purchasing a product on the free market. Please don't be so condescending in the future.

You missed school desegregation and civil rights. Those were the main reasons for white flight.

[krogerDisco]

Last time I was there, the week bus pass was set at Sun->Sat. No matter what. The system should be from when you buy your pass and lasts till the same time 7 days later. No matter what day it is bought. I bought a day pass in Boston and it lasted 24 hours from the time it was bought.

[corpgypsy]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

Pittsburgh lacks an arial tram/gondola system. We totally need to get on that.

I like to start the morn with a smile...thanks, WhoIsStanwix?.