What don't you like about Pittsburgh? (Beaver, Jersey Shore: cost, to move, beach)

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, I have heard that too about the Appalachian dialect, though actually I heard it was southern speech in general. In any event, the southern accent, with all its different dialects, does not sound anything like modern English as spoken in England. Don't forget that 200 years ago, there was no word for computer, or AIDS, or indeed many other medical/scientific terms. So yes, I acknowledge, (I think I did earlier, too) language is always changing. This reminds me of a conversation I had with my dearly-beloved ex-husband, about feminism and using feminist words. He thought it was a bunch of hooey to say he/she, him/her when writing, etc. I said the language is always changing, we don't call people with Down Syndrome "Mongolian idiots" as people used to. That is just one example.

So we are probably in general agreement about a lot of language stuff. I still don't like "yinz/youns". Neither do I like "yous", which is used out here sometimes as the plural of you. I heard this has something to do with our Spanish heritage, as in Spanish there are words for both the singular and plural of you. In general, I love our Spanish heritage, just not that word, I would add.

I hate to drag this out, because, yes, we are in general agreement, but the langugage change that has taken place over the last couple hundred years is more than just words. Yes, the most noticeable changes that have occured have been in the development of new words, the way that words have changed meaning, and the loss of many words and expressions in English, but as I demonstrated, word order has also changed quite a bit, as have many aspects of conjugation and grammar, and quite a bit in terms of pronunciation. These changes all started somewhere, and when they occurred, they too were processed as "wrong", but they continued, and today, we don't mourn the loss of what once was.

Purely hypothetical, lets say that "yinz" or its sister "y'all" do become standard in English in 200 years time. Do you still feel like something just isn't right about that? Then lets suppose that, at that time, the debate is over whether to keep "yinz" or to use this other term that is beginning to emerge... lets call it "yaws". Are the people who want to keep "yinz" then "right" while the others are wrong? And if so, by what basis? If you took, say, John Adams and brought him forward through time to today... he would have the same experience as someone walking through an area with heavy accents and dialect... everything would seem "wrong" or "uncultured" to him. Now, someone like, say, Dr. Franklin, who was more open-minded would probably just roll with it.

[supersoulty]

And actually, the differences between Southern American speech and British dialects of today are purely because of divergence, which will always happen when two groups are separated. It's not as though Southerns bastardized the way they spoke. They both simply diverged.

[Katarina Witt]

I hear what you're saying, but as guylocke and others have said, "yinz" seems to be dying out, so perhaps it isn't worth getting *too* worked up about.

[supersoulty]

Alright... I think we talked this thing about as far as we can go. It was a pleasure, I assure. I enjoyed it.

[Katarina Witt]

Yes, me too.

[IAmAngieBowie]

Originally Posted by supersoulty

My only goal was to get you to realize that there really is no basis for the degree to which you look down on people.

Tears of cry of tears. Tears of cry of tears of cry of cry.

[wordzgirl]

Originally Posted by supersoulty

I hate to drag this out, because, yes, we are in general agreement, but the langugage change that has taken place over the last couple hundred years is more than just words. Yes, the most noticeable changes that have occured have been in the development of new words, the way that words have changed meaning, and the loss of many words and expressions in English, but as I demonstrated, word order has also changed quite a bit, as have many aspects of conjugation and grammar, and quite a bit in terms of pronunciation. These changes all started somewhere, and when they occurred, they too were processed as "wrong", but they continued, and today, we don't mourn the loss of what once was.

Purely hypothetical, lets say that "yinz" or its sister "y'all" do become standard in English in 200 years time. Do you still feel like something just isn't right about that? Then lets suppose that, at that time, the debate is over whether to keep "yinz" or to use this other term that is beginning to emerge... lets call it "yaws". Are the people who want to keep "yinz" then "right" while the others are wrong? And if so, by what basis? If you took, say, John Adams and brought him forward through time to today... he would have the same experience as someone walking through an area with heavy accents and dialect... everything would seem "wrong" or "uncultured" to him. Now, someone like, say, Dr. Franklin, who was more open-minded would probably just roll with it.

I've got to say that I hear y'all WAY more here in the South than I ever heard yinz up in the 'burgh. Down here lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc. say y'all and no one bats an eye. I never heard a doctor, teacher or lawyer use yinz in Pittsburgh.

[Katarina Witt]

Y'all seems to have gained some credibility from lots of exposure on TV, movies, etc. It is more widely used than "yinz", which is relegated to a very few parts of the country, mainly parts of Appalachia.

I don't think I have heard "yinz" used by doctors, lawyers or teachers, either. My brother's doctor does have a very strong Pittsburgh accent.

[tishpit]

I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and so I have very deep-rooted opinions of this city and the surrounding area. From the time I was a kid, I always looked forward to summer vacation to hopefully go to the Jersey Shore... or anywhere away from Pittsburgh. I like the Steelers and still am a devoted fan. Otherwise, I cannot tell you anything I find positive about the place.

It is gray with clouds most of the time. Winter is cold, damp, and very depressing. Mucky slush is everywhere and driving up and down the hills can turn your knuckles and hair white in one typical snowfall. The people, I have found, are generally die-hard Pittsburghers who are not friendly to "outsiders" unlike other cities I have lived in and visited. The city, in my experiences, is indeed dirty and smelly. Especially downtown where the sidewalks were always smeared with wads of spit or goo and the smell of bus fumes was enough to elicit asthmatic breathing in the healthiest person. The economy is a consistent downward spiral. Even the rivers are brown and filthy looking. The terrain is so darn hilly, to find level land is a treasure, except for downtown that is level as it is lower in elevation and therefore often floods during snow melts/rains in spring.

I graduated the University of Pittsburgh and have nothing positive to say of that school either. After the graduation ceremony, I went to the placement office to get help finding employment and was told to come back when I get my Master's. My uncle, who is also a Pitt graduate, was given a similar brush off when he needed job assistance.

I have not lived in the Pittsburgh area since 1994 and never regretted leaving. I have traveled throughout the country and resided in the west and south and would never consider living in Pittsburgh again. While my family in Pittsburgh is shoveling snow in wind chills of minus 20, I am working on my tan at the beach or planting gardenias. No comparison.

[Copanut]

Sounds like it was a good idea for you to leave Pittsburgh. But why did you delay it 4 years by going to Pitt?