Pittsburgh Area Development - Request for Info & Updates (Beaver: renewal, pool)

[svband76]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Name one established neighborhood destroyed by construction. Hundreds of people where? Or do you hate Wholefoods? I think you’re trying to paint an inaccurate picture.

Hill District in 1950s. Granted that was a long long time ago.

[Reggiezz]

Gateway Center destroyed intact neighborhoods. But urban renewal just gutted the North Side. City planners.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

There were plans to redevelop the former PPS Horace Mann School in Marshall-Shadeland into apartments and then build townhomes behind it on Horace Mann Field, but I have no idea what the status is of that project. I know the developer has been cited for the deterioration of the building's roof and has a court appearance in March over it. I am hopeful this might be the year the developer gets its act together and makes that project happen and brings more housing units to our neighborhood, too. If that building has to be razed and is replaced by new construction I am going to be SUPER NIMBY about it unless it is something super dense like the Parklane in Highland Park that would justify the demolition of that beautiful old brick 1800's school building.

If you're serious about saving the building, the way to do so is a nomination before the Historic Review Commission, which will essentially preclude it ever being demolished. It would also make rehab more expensive however.

Generally speaking though, it's really unlikely that old buildings of that size are knocked down unless they're in terrible condition, and PPS usually maintains its vacant properties in a minimal enough fashion to stop them from being collapsed. Gladstone in Hazelwood is being rehabbed into apartments as we speak, so I don't think we're far off from a rehab of Horace Mann being a thing.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Thanks.

I'm a very "Yes In My BackYard" (YIMBY) person in general because I feel like the best way to increase affordability in a city with a stagnant population is to greatly increase the supply of available housing.

There is currently a new market-rate townhouse development being proposed on Termon Avenue between Millerton & Wealth in Brighton Heights. There are a lot of NIMBY's opposed to this project because they don't want the increased density of a few dozen new townhomes. This will be on the site of the former Three Rivers Youth Home. I'm supportive of this project.

There were plans to redevelop the former PPS Horace Mann School in Marshall-Shadeland into apartments and then build townhomes behind it on Horace Mann Field, but I have no idea what the status is of that project. I know the developer has been cited for the deterioration of the building's roof and has a court appearance in March over it. I am hopeful this might be the year the developer gets its act together and makes that project happen and brings more housing units to our neighborhood, too. If that building has to be razed and is replaced by new construction I am going to be SUPER NIMBY about it unless it is something super dense like the Parklane in Highland Park that would justify the demolition of that beautiful old brick 1800's school building.

Overall I am unimpressed by the amount of NIMBY's in this city. Even in Shadyside I just read a recent "NEXTPIttsburgh" article in which a resident of Shadyside was opposed to the redevelopment of the Shady Hill Shopping Center at Penn & Shady because it would "affect views". She just moved to Shadyside from Zelienople a few years ago. Additionally there is a woman named Virginia Flaherty who lives in Shadyside and who owns rental properties in Shadyside who organizes staunch opposition to ANY new development in Shadyside because the neighborhood "doesn't need more apartments" (i.e. "if they build more new units I'll have to spend money to upgrade my own units to remain competitive"). If Shadyside didn't need more apartments then why are apartments so expensive there? That sort of implies a shortage of supply, correct? If not, then that implies landlords are just greedy, correct?

I am unimpressed that Mayor Gainey hasn't taken a harder stance against NIMBYism. He was very receptive in getting Walnut Capital to scale BACK their project in Oakland (the state's third-largest CBD) due to it being "too dense", and he stayed silent while Virginia Flaherty's NIMBY mob scuttled Mozart's plans for its new mid-rise on South Aiken Avenue. To be fair, though, Peduto BUNGLED the Penn Plaza project. Instead of encouraging the developer to build even DENSER to house MORE affordably-priced rentals that could, in turn, eventually rehouse those displaced on the site he listened to the stupid NIMBY's. Now those NIMBY's are why gentrification is going to be even worse in the East End as workers at the new TECH OFFICE on the Penn Plaza site (no apartments) will also want to LIVE nearby, exacerbating the rental shortage there and pricing out MORE people in surrounding areas.

Originally Posted by svband76

Hill District in 1950s. Granted that was a long long time ago.

I’m referring to current construction across Pittsburgh.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Reggiezz

Gateway Center destroyed intact neighborhoods. But urban renewal just gutted the North Side. City planners.

We all know the urban renewal projects of the 50s. It’s 2023. Gateway Center was the first post WWII privately funded urban renewal project. Gateway Center did displaced mostly businesses as the area was heavily industrialized. The Historic Wabash Train station caught fire and hastened the areas demolition. Hundreds of people were not displaced and a neighborhood was not destroyed. The point was prone to flooding and a major part of Renaissance I was flood control and damn construction. Gateway Center actually improved the neighborhood and Point State Park is truly a community asset.

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

We all know the urban renewal projects of the 50s. It’s 2023. Gateway Center was the first post WWII privately funded urban renewal project. Gateway Center did displaced mostly businesses as the area was heavily industrialized. The Historic Wabash Train station caught fire and hastened the areas demolition. Hundreds of people were not displaced and a neighborhood was not destroyed. The point was prone to flooding and a major part of Renaissance I was flood control and damn construction. Gateway Center actually improved the neighborhood and Point State Park is truly a community asset.

urban renewal failed not because city planning is fundamentally flawed - go to rome or paris or NYC and see for yourself

urban renewal failed because the city planners behind it were clueless hacks

don't hate the game, hate the players

[h_curtis]

X

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

urban renewal failed not because city planning is fundamentally flawed - go to rome or paris or NYC and see for yourself

urban renewal failed because the city planners behind it were clueless hacks

don't hate the game, hate the players

I was in Paris recently. Believe me…there are some mid century monstrosities there as well. New York has a few. I would not call Gateway Center a failure. It’s actually quite nice and is a museum of mid century architecture by notable architects. It has matured very well.

Allegheny Center, Civic Arena and Penn Circle were total disasters. All three areas are currently under some type of reconstruction.

I can’t imagine

Driving downtown Federal from North Ave to the Sixth Street Bridge. The view must have been amazing.

The density of the Hill adjacent to Ross Street

East Liberty’s intact commercial areas

All three areas were serviced by streetcars.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I was in Paris recently. Believe me…there are some mid century monstrosities there as well. New York has a few.

It's always interesting to me to travel through European cities, because the mid-century brutalist stuff is just as aesthetically dodgy as in the U.S., but it's generally built in a much more walkable fashion.

IMHO it's a lot easier to ignore ugly architecture on busy city streets packed with pedestrians. Much of Tokyo is godawful ugly, but you don't tend to notice it.

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I would not call Gateway Center a failure. It’s actually quite nice and is a museum of mid century architecture by notable architects. It has matured very well.

Gateway Center was maybe one of the only examples of urban renewal the city undertook which was not a total failure, but that doesn't mean I think it was the best possible way to revitalize the area. I think stringing a highway through Point State Park in particular was a horrendous, awful idea.

The issue is Pittsburgh learned from its "success" in Point State Park that it could do it again...and then all the disasters happened. Not just Allegheny Center/the Lower Hill/East Liberty either. Manchester was basically destroyed by urban renewal. Beaver Street used to be similar to East Carson, but they turned 65 into a highway, obliterated the business district, and then cleared everything towards the river to turn it into Chateau, a giant industrial park.

We dodged a few bullets as well. There were plans to demolish all of the Mexican War Streets and to replace them with "towers in the park" ala NYC. There was also a plan to do to South Side what was done to Manchester - turn East Carson Street into a highway, destroy the business district, and empty the area close to the river of residents. This is why the Birmingham Bridge and the Glenwood Bridge are so over-engineered - they were meant to link into high-capacity highways.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This is why the Birmingham Bridge and the Glenwood Bridge are so over-engineered - they were meant to link into high-capacity highways.

Speaking of that, I do think a highway spur from the Glenwood Bridge to the Mon-Fayette Expressway is a good idea in lieu of the Mon-Fayette Expressway being extended into the city, an so is upgrading Carson Street to a four-lane boulevard from the Glenwood Bridge to the Hot Metal Bridge.