Amtrak delivers required report on Pittsburgh train service (Philadelphia, Harrisburg: mover, hotel)

[ferraris]

I bet that percentage goes a lot higher when you consider how many people use taxis, which are kind of a private form of public transportation in my mind. It also probably goes up if you only look at Manhattan or don't include areas like Staten Island.

Overall I think the new transit plan is a small step in the right direction, I still think that the naming system is more confusing than it needs to be (for new comers at least, it is probably easier for people who are transitioning from the old system) and I don't think it is very clear to visitors and newcomers to the city which routes they should be using. In NYC you just grab a subway map and see the several different colored lines and their variants, in Pittsburgh you have to grab the map for the route you want. There should be a map (and routes for it) that clearly convey how to get around to common destinations. Maybe the Rapid buslines and T will turn into this, but it doesn't seem to have taken that final step yet.

EDIT: Hmm, I thought this was the port authority thread, sorry!

[pman]

Originally Posted by Impala26

Good point Pman. I recall reading somewhere that approximately 45% of people in NYC commute by public transportation. About double that of the next highest US metro area using public transportation (DC I believe?). Still even NYC is below that compared to average European cities. The point you make however is valid. A new person coming to NYC could more easily figure out how to get around without a car than in Toledo or Cleveland.

It helps train ridership if people really are going to the city itself. If you're going to NY or Philly for a weekend or weekday and staying downtown, it'll save you a lot of money not having a car for parking and not having to rent a car (at least for the whole time). Pittsburgh's transit system may not be great, but downtown is so walkable nothing is too far from the station. that helps generate ridership. a friend of mine took the train to Charleston, imagine her surprise when she got off and was in a bad area of North Charleston. may as well be at an airport 40 min outside town. In contrast, when we visit NY by train, frequently we'll stay within two blocks of the station . get off the train, drop the bags off the hotel, then hit the town. While Philly is slighlty less convenient, it's no more than five blocks from a number of hotels, same with Pitt. Regarding real HSR, I'd bet that potential residents would put 3.5 hours from NY (2.5 from Philly) as a desirable amenity, perhaps higher than a fast trip to cleveland. I think better intercity service to Cleveland would be great, but in terms of the benefits of HSR, might actually be lower. I'd be willing to bet you'd have a lot more people from both sides of the state exploring the other.
edited to add: nearly 3/4's of downtown Philly workers walk, bike, or use transit.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

If the powers that be want to fund it east before west, that's fine.

I'll take whatever funding we can get, but I guess I don't know if that premise is true--the folks in Ohio and points beyond seem to get that a high-speed connection to Pittsburgh is in the interests of their markets, so they may well come up with the funding sooner than the folks in non-Southwestern PA. Generally, I don't think it is a coincidence that the state has put virtually all of its passenger rail funding into Philly-Harrisburg, and we'll just have to see if that political situation in PA can be changed to widen the scope of those efforts.

topography is a challenge in both areas, IMO.

It starts out comparable in each direction, but then gets much easier toward the west than toward the east. So I am fairly confident that if you were doing a new ROW, it would cost less on average per mile to the west (assuming the same technology).

moreover, I'd rather be dumped off on foot in NY, Philly, or Pitt than cleveland, toledo, or south bend.

Again this is a loaded comparison because you aren't including Chicago. I understand what you are saying about local transit generally being better in the east, but I don't think it helps to overlook that Chicago is a big attraction as a destination if you are going west.

[BrianTH]

I don't think it is very clear to visitors and newcomers to the city which routes they should be using. In NYC you just grab a subway map and see the several different colored lines and their variants, in Pittsburgh you have to grab the map for the route you want. There should be a map (and routes for it) that clearly convey how to get around to common destinations. Maybe the Rapid buslines and T will turn into this, but it doesn't seem to have taken that final step yet.

This is arguably on topic because we are discussing the interface of intercity and local transit.

So I will indulge myself and note I see no reason why given the current plan, the PAT couldn't then just put together a simplified, schematic map of the T, Busways, and Rapid Bus routes for visitors, marking prominent destinations (e.g., Pitt and CMU, Downtown Squirrel Hill, etc.).

[Blackbeauty212]

PAT can't put together a decent full version map for its residents....Hell even the website is junk, who is there webmaster, jeez!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

PAT can't put together a decent full version map for its residents....Hell even the website is junk, who is there webmaster, jeez!

True, the current situation is ridiculous. But hopefully they are heading in the right direction now--they now have a PDF master map of the proposed system which should be convertible into an actual system map, and meanwhile the sort of schematic map I have in mind is a two-day project for a tech-savvy intern (which I suppose means they will pay a design firm $500K to get it done in six months).

[ctoocheck]

If you happen to know anyone at PAT let them know I'll do it for $200 ;-) I actually started one but then quit once they announced the TDP. Apparently it was an impressive part of my portfolio for my grad school application.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ctoocheck

If you happen to know anyone at PAT let them know I'll do it for $200 ;-).

You know, if they don't do this themselves, I might well put up the $200 myself and then just give the darn thing away.

If people aren't familiar with the concept, this is the sort of thing I have in mind:

http://www.airwise.com/airports/us/IAD/images/metromap.gif (broken link)

That is not to scale and otherwise simplified for use by visitors, and you could do the exact same thing with just the T, Busways, and Rapid Bus routes.

[ctoocheck]

That is not to scale and otherwise simplified for use by visitors, and you could do the exact same thing with just the T, Busways, and Rapid Bus routes.

Hopefully that would be easy enough. They did used to have a schematic/abstract system map back in the day if you recall (with all routes), but it was basically a total mess and incredibly difficult to make any sense of. Pittsburgh's streets (and therefore bus routes) are a crazy mess, so it's really no surprise it would be complicated.

Here's the map I drew up a while back. It's not quite as schematic as the Metro map, since I thought with buses it's relatively important to know where the bus is going precisely, I thought. And it's only (mostly) of the East End (planned targeted audience was college students). Another option was to do the overall network schematically then do neighborhoods (in orange) in detail.
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...M2JlZjEw&hl=en

I also drew up a schematic map (like the metro one) but for the PITTSBURGH OF THE FUTURE! including rapid transit of my dreams.
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...NDM0ZDE2&hl=en

Theyre both not quite cleaned up, though.

[ctoocheck]

Also (more thread-on-topic) one of my other transportation-related dreams (not reflected in aforementioned maps) is that, when we (hopefully) finally actually get lots of intercity train service and all, a fancy new train station will be built on the North Side just south of Allegheny center. Then the North Shore Connector can be extended north from PNC Park (while the other branch to Heinz Field will have been extended somewhere west, I guess) and service the station.
It seems that location would be a decent one, especially if/when the North Shore and Allegheny Center are redeveloped more. Also because it just seems (perhaps) near-impossible that the current station would be able to handle a large increase in ridership/service considering its rather tiny location, now that the rest of the Penn Station building is private . But I dunno. Just a thought.