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We all agree now that before the 1960s the Democrats had a very poor record on civil rights. So what? This is the 21st century. Let's talk about something relevant.
I think that when you argue that churches dominate life and politics in the North from 1800-1860, you are actually driving home my argument. The abolition movement was certainly a progressive movement, but a progressive movement with no economic obstacles to oppose it. The support of public education had an economic impetus. Industrialists rely on employees to have at least rudimentary skills such as basic reading, writing and arithmetic, which is what public education focused on. If you look at the early arguments for public education, especially those made in Massachusetts, you will see that the selling point of public education is that it's good for business.
When churches dominate life and politics, in any social system, you see a society that is more rigid, both in enforcing social mores but also in maintaining rigid class systems. Society is less flexible, less welcoming of new ideas, new ways of doing things, newcomers in general. You see that in the North, the Boston Brahmins, the rigid upper-class society of New York in the 1800's and early 1900's. Churches didn't dominate Southern culture until after the Civil War, and as churches took hold, you see an increasingly rigid and conservative social system.
They were liberal churches, they started the movements I'm talking about. They weren't Southern Baptists or the like. That's the fact of the matter.
They were liberal churches, they started the movements I'm talking about. They weren't Southern Baptists or the like. That's the fact of the matter.
And the Southern Baptist churches weren't politically or socially all that powerful prior to the Civil War. Which is what I've been pointing out to you. The South was more socially liberal prior to the Civil War than the South. That's the fact of the matter.
And the Southern Baptist churches weren't politically or socially all that powerful prior to the Civil War. Which is what I've been pointing out to you. The South was more socially liberal prior to the Civil War than the South. That's the fact of the matter.
No, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. You said that churches prove your point about conservatism, and I said, not these churches in the north, they weren't conservative-like the SB is today. Besides the whole Baptist movement starts with America's first liberal, Roger Williams, but besides the point.
You still have yet to say specifically how the south was liberal anyway. They north also had literature, arts, music, architecture, etc, plus the social mindedness one might associate with liberal movements.
The south was pretty clear to hang onto its "way of life" which is a very conservative way of thinking.
We all agree now that before the 1960s the Democrats had a very poor record on civil rights. So what? This is the 21st century. Let's talk about something relevant.
We all agree now that before the 1960s the Democrats had a very poor record on civil rights. So what? This is the 21st century. Let's talk about something relevant.
You think history is irrelevant? Or just history that is not especially flattering to your position?
You think history is irrelevant? Or just history that is not especially flattering to your position?
What you are trying to do is perpetuate a lie. The lie is denial that the Republican Party is currently a racist organization.
We have all acknowledged the history of the Democratic Party. What we are waiting for is you to acknowledge the current practices of the Republican Party.
Last edited by rhinestone; 06-30-2010 at 10:57 AM..
What you trying to do is perpetuate a lie. The lie is denial that the Republican Party is currently a racist organization.
We have all acknowledged the history of the Democratic Party. What we are waiting for is you to acknowledge the current practices of the Republican Party.
My response is: if you think they're racist and klan material, you're a moron. The man they serve at the hands of is mixed-race and they both love the guy. Boxer is Jewish, and Biden grew up in Wilmington, which is a black city.
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