Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:06 AM
 
117 posts, read 66,034 times
Reputation: 28

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Lenin was not part-Jewish. Anti-semitic Russian monarchists spread that lie. It was furthered by people like Henry Ford who wrote about "Lenin and his wife speaking to their children in Yiddish" (never mind that Lenin had no children and did not know Yiddish).
In Wikipedia it says his maternal grandfather was Alexander Blank (born Israel Blank). I know Wikipedia isn't a great source, but Israel is a strange name to give a German child (the other theory mentioned).


Quote:
Yet when Jewish groups asked Trotsky (who was ethnically Jewish) to protect them against pogroms, Trotsky said "you are not my people and I owe nothing to you". Those ethnic Jews who were Bolsheviks did not identify themselves as Jews, they identified themselves as Bolsheviks. (Trotsky after going into exile would change his view on Jewish identity).
Trotsky was meant to be every bit as murderous as Stalin and it would likely not have saved lives if he had got Stalin's job. The fact he was an indiscriminate murderer is no surprise. The Russian who took over from Yagoda in the purges once said it was worth having "ten innocent people suffer rather than letting one 'enemy of the people' escape". All those communists thought like that. Most of them were Jews.

Quote:
As for Stalin planning his own Holocaust as part of the Doctor's Plot (never carried out due to Stalin's death), Nikita Khruschev admitted as much, as did Anastas Mikoylan, Nikolai Bulganin, Yevgeny Tarle, and Andrei Sakharov. MI6 informed Winston Churchill of what Stalin was planning to do, and Churchill did issue a statement officially condemning the Doctor's Plot. Stalin thought that all Jews in the USSR were working for the CIA and MI6 and wanted to "finish what Hitler began".
Stalin was murderous, yes. That doesn't take away from the fact that the Jews murdered tens of millions of Eastern Europeans between WW1 and WW2.
Quote:
As for Jewish political prisoners: I said "per capita" they were the most overrepresented of any ethnicity in the USSR. Obviously, the majority of the population of the USSR and of the gulags were not Jewish.

(BTW, I'm not Jewish.)
Jews tend to make themselves visible. They were certainly visible in the NKVD. Up to 65% of those enthusiastic murderers were Jews before Stalin had had enough of them. Is it really a surprise they were overrepresented as political prisoners? Perish the thought.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:08 AM
 
34 posts, read 36,121 times
Reputation: 17
you are right .i think ! believe yourself !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,586 posts, read 84,818,250 times
Reputation: 115121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
History just is. As long as one teaches it without bias ( which granted can often be an uphill task) then History is not meant to be "popular" or politically correct.

I see nothing wrong with teaching kids what actually was rather than what we wished it had been. A fact is a fact, is a fact. The Founding Fathers are a huge basic and primordial part of American History and to omit it because some people might no relate to or it might offend would be to be intellecually disingenuous and simply encourage a revisionist vision of History as a subject.


Most of History is deeply unpleasant in terms of facts relating to certain groups. I think it is nonetheless hugely important to ensure that children ( and adults as so many adults seem woefully ignorant of historical facts) are taught the facts with as little bias as possible. Some of the founding fathers were slave owners so that fact should be mentioned. It should also be put in a historical and cultural context.

Contrary to what many people believe History is not a dry subject but one which encompasses most disciplines and enlightens us on all different socio cultural issues from our view to religion and science to our views on human rights and social justice.

History should not be treated as a pick and mix subject with all the hard facts taken out to make it more digestible. We are all the product of our historical past for good and for worse. We need to comprehend historical context to be able to come to terms with our current present.

Often National History in particular has a way of eulogising certain episodes of a Nation without being critical and truly honest and in that respect I feel historians can do a lot better to bring a lot more objectivity to a subject which to me remains still the most fascinating and socially enlightening.

I do think ALL kids for example Black and White , Native American or Hispanic etc... should be taught more about the bad as well as the bad points of American history. History has to be critical and objective or at least attempt to be. The Curriculum should be all encompassing and not simply put certain people on a pedestal.

More critical analysis of all history is necessary to make the subject a truly valid one. I believe it also becomes a great pedagogical tool encouraging students to enter History with a critical and challenging mind. We should be teaching kids to think for themselves. Which ultimately means stepping back and laying out the facts and allowing kids to analyse them in an unbias way.

From a Native American point of view the conquest of the American Continent was a unmitigated disaster and this should not be swept under the carpet. I am also astonished at the appalling level of interest in American Books spent on Native American History pre-conquest. America may have started as a Nation more or less with the Pilgrims but there was a hugely fascinating myriad of cultures and civilisations living there before that...


History to me is all around us and has shaped our world and we cannot allow certain feelings to get in the way of accuracy. We need to re-shape the subject matter and let the facts speak for themselves.

Uncomfortable or controversial topics should not be avoided but met head on with a mature and open mind and with the aim of showing kids exactly how rich and sexy the subject truly is. We are history.
Have you read the book 1491? The author wrote the book after realizing that his son's history book did not contain any of the latest information and findings on pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas; information that is well-known in the academic world but not in the general population. It is fascinating. One of the most interesting facts to me (and there were many) is that as the so-called "virgin Amazon forest" is being cleared, they are uncovering the remains of the populations who lived there before it was overgrown. Many of the fruit trees, etc., that visitors love to happen upon in the Amazon were planted--parts of orchards.

The indigenous population in the western hemisphere was larger than was previously thought.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,630,992 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Have you read the book 1491? The author wrote the book after realizing that his son's history book did not contain any of the latest information and findings on pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas; information that is well-known in the academic world but not in the general population. It is fascinating. One of the most interesting facts to me (and there were many) is that as the so-called "virgin Amazon forest" is being cleared, they are uncovering the remains of the populations who lived there before it was overgrown. Many of the fruit trees, etc., that visitors love to happen upon in the Amazon were planted--parts of orchards.

The indigenous population in the western hemisphere was larger than was previously thought.
It is a good book. It always puzzles me and makes me a little cross that so many people really have no idea about the pre-conquest world and its level of sophistication. I met some people who had lived near Cahokia in Illinois and told me I was lying when I told them about the remarkable Native American Serpent Mounds and the Mississipian cultures. They did not even know of this great Archaeological site ( both of them were university educated) , People who had lived in the South-West all their lives and did not even know about the Ancient Pueblos... So many Americans who think of Native Americans only in terms of John Wayne and Westerns...

I find it sad that History books only skim the surface of what is truly a fascinating and culturally varied myriad of societies and civilisations. History is failing our kids ( and their parents). A lot of it is through lack of interest and ignorance but a lot of it is also through a dry and biased version of historical facts. We need to open the world to the fascinating world of History, warts and all...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,520 posts, read 4,209,898 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Herman View Post
I got my info on MLK from the FBI files that have been leaked over the years, and common knowledge. The dude was not the nice guy he is portrayed as today, he frequented prostitutes while married, and often got violent with them. He plagerized his most famous speech, and he was funded by communist. He was a vicious oppurtunist.
And you homeschool your kids?? And people wonder how racists are born.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,520 posts, read 4,209,898 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
This is 2010.
Yes, and many people are alive today that suffered through the inequalities and violence against Blacks in the 1960's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,520 posts, read 4,209,898 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Is it advantageous in your case to be a victim?
Is that the best you can do? Please point out where I've played the victim.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:53 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,884,155 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
In Wikipedia it says his maternal grandfather was Alexander Blank (born Israel Blank). I know Wikipedia isn't a great source, but Israel is a strange name to give a German child (the other theory mentioned).


Trotsky was meant to be every bit as murderous as Stalin and it would likely not have saved lives if he had got Stalin's job. The fact he was an indiscriminate murderer is no surprise. The Russian who took over from Yagoda in the purges once said it was worth having "ten innocent people suffer rather than letting one 'enemy of the people' escape". All those communists thought like that. Most of them were Jews.

Stalin was murderous, yes. That doesn't take away from the fact that the Jews murdered tens of millions of Eastern Europeans between WW1 and WW2.
Jews tend to make themselves visible. They were certainly visible in the NKVD. Up to 65% of those enthusiastic murderers were Jews before Stalin had had enough of them. Is it really a surprise they were overrepresented as political prisoners? Perish the thought.
Your arguments are illogical. If Lenin's grandfather was Jewish, that means that Lenin was 25% Jewish, and 75% non-Jewish. Jewish lineage is passed on maternally, so unless Lenin converted to Judaism, he wasn't Jewish. Moreover, he was ideologically a communist. Communists tend to reject religion altogether. You cannot blame Jews for the Communist purges, especially when Jews were the victims of those self-same purges.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:53 AM
 
6,022 posts, read 7,830,455 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Since the founders of this country are held up in high esteem and since they also owned slaves how should this topic be taught to kids especially Black kids? As a Black person myself I just can't view these men with the same enthusiasm as many whites do. Am I wrong?
no
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2010, 08:54 AM
 
6,022 posts, read 7,830,455 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Is that the best you can do? Please point out where I've played the victim.
thats there coded messages for they dont give a F--- or something worse alot of them do that
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:24 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top